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Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

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Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#191

Post by liendolucas »

IgorPartola wrote: post #187
liendolucas wrote: post #180

I'm still wondering why there's no regulation on this, forcing manufacturers to hand-in both the user and service manuals. I own a Kawasaki motorbike and tried to get its service manual just to understand a bit more about it, and is impossible to get it at this point unless I pay Kawasaki 100€ for its printed version (a fucking ripoff). It doesn't cost them anything to release PDFs as a courtesy to its customers.

I have almost always had luck with searching the web for “Kawasaki vn800 service manual pdf”. The hardest manual to get was for my Harley but for $20 I was able to buy a scanned PDF from a site that’s almost certainly illegal but delivered exactly what I needed.

Yeah, I think for particular models it can be easy to find them. But for others no luck at all. My guess is that maybe after few years they can be found. In particular for the z650rs I wasn't able to get any good results.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#192

Post by nsvd »

sardine5 wrote: post #161
turdprincess wrote: post #99

Good move, but another thing this brand does is charge you a monthly subscription to unlock the full battery range on your bike. If you don’t pay, you lug around a dead weight extra battery you cannot access. Overall this brand is notoriously unfriendly to consumers.

Not sure that's fair - the battery packs come with a 5 year warranty. If you increase the 'full range' - you're increasing the odds you'll need to claim on that, which needs paying for.

If they was true, they could stipulate that enabling full range would void the warranty. This is obviously a cash grab.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#193

Post by somerandomqaguy »

jeffbee wrote: post #105
somerandomqaguy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough on the cooling, but brakes I disagree, at least with my riding style. I do most my braking with a combination of front and engine braking. I usually don't touch the rear until either I'm close to a full stop or if I'm doing slow speed maneuvers. So unless Zero's got regen on the front wheel, I don't see there being too much different between the two.

There's nothing tricky about fixing a brake, though. It's a portable skill from one motorcycle to another. Unlike, say, the tolerances for oval and taper of a cylinder. I get that there's still going to be screws to turn on an electric bike, but that's going to be about what it boils down to: a list of torque specs.

> There's nothing tricky about fixing a brake, though. It's a portable skill from one motorcycle to another. Unlike, say, the tolerances for oval and taper of a cylinder.

Harder then you might think. I've seen someone not install the pads and have the rotor grind down into the caliper itself. Then installed the pad on the broken caliper and getting so crooked that it eventually warped the rotor into a dinner plate. IIRC the edge of the was about 1mm or 2mm out of line from the center of the rotor.

Swinging back on topic though, I do disagree slightly on the premise that the service manual is just a glorified page of torque specs. Speaking personally, fixing something isn't usually that difficult. Time consuming, demanding in focus, and wise to be cautious but generally speaking the procedure is usually well laid out.

What's hard is diagnosing the problem in the first place, determining what the fix is, and then locating the necessary parts or suppliers for those parts. The service manual's usually invaluable for the first bit.

Just to give a car example: You have a car who's instrument cluster who's center LCD that's stuck at minimum brightness. Is it a problem with the instrument cluster, the dimmer switch, or the PWM signal generator that controls the cluster's brightness?

As it turns out, someone thought about that. The service manual listed out a self test diagnostic for the instrument cluster; with engine off and key out, hold the odometer reset for 5 seconds, insert the key and turn to the on position. It will light up every light to full brightness and disregard the input PWM signal.

Who could have figured that out without the manual listing that procedure? I probably couldn't. I'd probably be reduced to parts cannon.

Electronics aren't immune to manufacturing defects, design flaws, mislabeled products, abuse, or the outside elements. And if something does fail, it's an absolute bitch to trace down problems with the electrical. Service manuals are invaluable both listing how things are supposed to work as well as often having extensive trouble shooting guides that give a hint at what could be a problem.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#195

Post by [deleted] »

chefandy wrote: post #78
notatoad wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it's more like a cross between a bicycle and motorcycle. and that's kinda the reason that the value proposition for electric motorbikes isn't very good. if you can give up the requirement of "i want to drive on the highway", an electric bicycle is going to do what you need for a fraction of the cost. electric motorbikes lean more towards toys than practical tools, so they're priced like toys.

Maybe more like a cross between a motocross bike and a street bike— it's a dual sport like the Honda CRF450. I wouldn't take it on a road trip but I'll bet it would handle an average highway commute just fine.

[deleted]

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#196

Post by bastawhiz »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #102
bastawhiz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be pedantic or invalidate your point, but most (all?) Zero bikes are air cooled, and they have zero hoses. Brakes get like an order of magnitude less wear thanks to regen, and the only fluid is brakes (well, and the battery, but if you find yourself in contact with it, the bike is a loss).

Fair enough on the cooling, but brakes I disagree, at least with my riding style. I do most my braking with a combination of front and engine braking. I usually don't touch the rear until either I'm close to a full stop or if I'm doing slow speed maneuvers. So unless Zero's got regen on the front wheel, I don't see there being too much different between the two.

We definitely have very different riding styles. I keep the regen cranked all the way up, and I can get fifteen miles across the city without touching either brake. I'll occasionally use the rear brake for trail braking.

The regen on my Energica is definitely a lot stronger than on my Zero, though—it's a lot more like an electric car where you can keep your foot over the accelerator almost all the time.

Between the two bikes, I've got roughly ten thousand miles and all four brake pads sit at ~85%.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#197

Post by vGPU »

deet wrote: post #92
porknubbins wrote: post #17

Are there any OEMs whose service manuals are hard to find? I restore cars and motorcycles and have never had trouble finding a pdf or hard copy for around $20. Its good that they are doing this though a lot of the secrets I’d want to know about an electric motorcycle are about the ECU when that software is some of the most tightly guarded of any.

I pay like $8/month for access to my 2021 Triumph’s service manual. As far as I know they keep it as an interactive website so that PDFs are hard to make. I haven’t found a good copy yet but it’s also possible that I’m just not as good at searching for pirated content as back in the old torrenting days (or perhaps just less motivated)

Just write a screenshot -> next page macro

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#198

Post by swifthesitation »

roland35 wrote: post #165
lelandbatey wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, no it's not. It's getting a monthly fee out of what could be a button or switch, a monthly fee that could be just an unpaid, free to use feature of the bike. This is some serious "c-suite message to help you fall asleep at night territory".

Having worked in hardware, I can imagine most customers would 1) push the button, then 2) complain that their battery performance is reduced.

> most customers would 1) push the button, then 2) complain that their battery performance is reduced.

In this scenario, have them do step 3..

3) push the button a second time.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#199

Post by jeffbee »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #193
jeffbee wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing tricky about fixing a brake, though. It's a portable skill from one motorcycle to another. Unlike, say, the tolerances for oval and taper of a cylinder. I get that there's still going to be screws to turn on an electric bike, but that's going to be about what it boils down to: a list of torque specs.

> There's nothing tricky about fixing a brake, though. It's a portable skill from one motorcycle to another. Unlike, say, the tolerances for oval and taper of a cylinder. Harder then you might think. I've seen someone not install the pads and have the rotor grind down into the caliper itself. Then installed the pad on the broken caliper and getting so crooked that it eventually warped the rotor into a dinner plate. I…

> I've seen someone not install the pads and have the rotor grind down into the caliper itself.

I am not sure any amount of free PDF files can help that rider.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#200

Post by avar »

zer8k wrote: post #119
LispSporks22 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus that is brutal. A dealer tool for bleeding abs? I’m holding onto my KLR forever apparently.

Yep, you can bleed it physically but the system will refuse to re-activate the ABS until you trigger something in the ROM. Absolutely insane. You can't get even order the tool directly from Triumph to do it because you need to be some kind of verified auto mechanic for them. Even the oil change was a pain. I had to quite literally crush the dealer oil filter and break it off in pieces with a pipe wrench because it wa…

Are you talking about this tool, which you can get even cheaper elsewhere: https://triumphdirect.co.uk/products/oil-filter-wrench-t3880...
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