Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VanMoof encryption key exporter

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 224 posts

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#191

Post by Arnt »

tinus_hn wrote: post #163
michaelt wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, maybe not. I mean, even if a stolen bike has a working tracker and you're able to trace it to a particular house, do VanMoof's recovery team have the legal authority to bust the door down to reclaim it?

If you consistently locate stolen bikes, you might have a bigger chance of the police backing you up.

The security guard companies have some sort of arrangement with the police; I've heard that they can call police and have someone show up in a hurry. Why wouldn't Van Moof have the same sort of arrangement in the countries where Van Hoof operates most (well, operated most)?

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#192

Post by beardedwizard »

sudosysgen wrote: post #189
newaccount74 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much par for the course for all bike manufacturers. There's a million different bottom brackets, headsets, axles standards, etc. Eg. if your through axle breaks, good luck finding a store that stocks one in the correct length with the correct thread and the correct thread length, and even if you do, you'll probably end up paying 40€ for a small piece of metal.

That's really not true. Most European bikes use standard bottom bracket sizes and you can easily find dozens of compatible bottom brackets. Same goes for headsets, axles, brakes, etc... The big exception right now are thru-axles, yes, but the vast majority of bikes don't use thru-axles (and there's no reason a vanmoof commuter bike would need to use those), they use quick release axles, and those are completely stand…

this may be true for commuting bikes that are typically lower end, but absolutely not true for higher end bikes across the model line of all mfgs. In many cases they switch year over year.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#193

Post by WeylandYutani »

Arnt wrote: post #23
wjnc wrote: post #3

Don’t buy products made by VC funded firms! Especially not if it’s a real product and you value repairability and service. VanMoof made losses the size of their revenue. They made bikes… where’s the natural monopoly to be chased there?

What did Van Moof make, exactly? Do you think they were normal bikes? They made expensive e-bikes with theft recovery features. They have features that make it possible to trace and locate them, and Van Moof would actually do this. For people who spend €3-4k on an easily stolen object that the police won't care about, that's a unique selling point.

Not everyone coming to HN may be aware of this but basically every bicycle producer has an app now.

I'll give van Moof credit for inventing some neat things but as we all know just being the first doesn't automatically mean success.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#194

Post by hiatus »

Arnt wrote: post #191
tinus_hn wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consistently locate stolen bikes, you might have a bigger chance of the police backing you up.

The security guard companies have some sort of arrangement with the police; I've heard that they can call police and have someone show up in a hurry. Why wouldn't Van Moof have the same sort of arrangement in the countries where Van Hoof operates most (well, operated most)?

Likely because police will not offer a hotline to dispatch them to a bike theft.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#195

Post by avar »

midoridensha wrote: post #116
jillesvangurp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be shocked anywhere in the Netherlands (I'm Dutch) at how common bike theft is. We have actual secured parking garages in many cities to counter the problem. The larger ones in Utrecht and Amsterdam have room for many thousands of bikes and they are used a lto. Berlin where I currently live isn't much better but they've not yet introduced parking garages for bikes as far as I know.

Netherlands is a wealthy developed nation; how did it get like what you describe? It sounds like a lack of enforcement, or some kind of problem with an unrecognized socioeconomic underclass. Here in Tokyo, this kind of problem with theft is unheard of. Most bike theft is just joy-riding, and is deterred by using a wheel lock (goes through the wheel spokes, so it can't be easily ridden). Of course, this is also a plac…

(I immigrated to The Netherlands from another developed nation).

It's weird, the main oddity is that it's just not considered theft in the same sense.

Before E-Bikes took off ~10 years ago everyone living in a city had a €50-300 beater bike "omafiets" for commuting, if you went out you were expecting your bike to be stolen on occasion.

So, you'd steal someone else's bike, either personally, or if you were downtown a junkie would ride past every 10 minutes offering a freshly stolen bike for €50 euros, which if you were smart you could easily haggle down to €5-20.

When pressed (especially after a few drinks) almost every city dwelling Dutchie you meet will admit to having stolen a bike, or bought a "second hand" one that's obviously stolen. I'm talking about people who are well off, went to University etc.

So bikes simply weren't personal property in the usual sense, and admitting to stealing one was no big deal, even if admitting in the same company to stealing a car would make you unemployable.

People stole your bike. You stole theirs. It all worked out in the end.

Now, this has really been upset by the E-Bike boom, now people are communiting in the same cities as 10 years ago, but on bikes costing 5-20x as much when adjusted for inflation.

So there's been some adjustment, but not really. The police still don't care about your stolen bike, and realistically you'll face zero consequences if you buy and use a stolen bike.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#196

Post by aembleton »

blackbeans wrote: post #101
lm28469 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bikes are made of aluminium these days instead of steel, which gives them a lifespan of about 10 years, certainly not 30. Absolute bullshit, especially for a city bike. Stress cycle is an issue but city bikes are over engineered and don't see a lot of stress compared to every other type of bikes. I've used alu bikes over 30 years old daily and I had no issues whatsoever, that's how I went to school everyday for 3 y…

My experience as long term employee of a big bicycle manufacturer is different. Yes, aluminium can survive a long time. But in general steel has a better chance to survive. The category of city bikes are low cost bikes, and the frames are as well. They are not so over engineered as you think as it is a very competitive market. The first generation VanMoof frames for instance, were prone to breaking. While it is possi…

Is aluminium more brittle then? My aluminium frame has plenty of dents and scratches and its about ten years old. I've another thats 25 years old but isn't ridden as often.

Do you know what the median lifespan is of an aluminium frame? I guess it depends on how often its crashed?

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#197

Post by abyssin »

beardedwizard wrote: post #192
sudosysgen wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really not true. Most European bikes use standard bottom bracket sizes and you can easily find dozens of compatible bottom brackets. Same goes for headsets, axles, brakes, etc... The big exception right now are thru-axles, yes, but the vast majority of bikes don't use thru-axles (and there's no reason a vanmoof commuter bike would need to use those), they use quick release axles, and those are completely stand…

this may be true for commuting bikes that are typically lower end, but absolutely not true for higher end bikes across the model line of all mfgs. In many cases they switch year over year.

In this case it was a low-end model of VanMoof. I could see no excuse not to use something standard, the goal seemed to be customer lock-in.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#198

Post by NegativeLatency »

Arnt wrote: post #136
crote wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An AirTag is $30. So yeah, what did they make?

You're implying that about $30 is enough to build something airtag-like into a bike? Can you describe how? I'd be happy to learn just for myself (I'd love to do something like that with my expensive bike) but you get bonus points if the scheme is usable for a business, ie. doesn't rely on Apple's benevolence or ignorance.

There are some nice ways to hide the AirTag in the steerer tube or water bottle mounts that cost a lot less than $30

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#199

Post by vr46 »

m000 wrote: post #68
Arnt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously: They bought a lot of expensive machinery to build things, rented and furnished a lot of shops, and hired a lot of people to staff those, and sales didn't grow to to use their production capacity, sales area and staff time. Their prices for that trace-or-replace service were quite a bit higher than what my insurance agency charges me for my theft insurance. That operation may have lost money, but that's not…

I think that insisting on operating boutique shops around the world was a very costly option. They could have made it much cheaper for them (and convenient for customers) by affiliating with existing bicycle shops when they went worldwide. I share your worries about the trace-or-replace service. Specifically about the "trace" part of trace-or-replace. Ok, the program is excellent promotion, and did put them on the ma…

No kidding on the boutique shops, an expensive street in Covent Garden is super cool to pickup a bike from but running a specialised servicing department from there was clearly commercial suicide. For profligacy this was topped only by a datacentre I was asked to help decommission that was in an Art Deco building on Strand. Next to The Savoy. Overlooking Cleopatra’s Needle and the Thames.

That said, it is a shame that you can’t have specialised bicycle service shops in the centre of London. VanMoof offered a pretty good bespoke experience and my X2 has had a few issues but it’s going quite well four years in. What goes up quickly comes down quickly, I suppose.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#200

Post by Rebelgecko »

tjoff wrote: post #51
Rebelgecko wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need an internet connection or the app, but that's the most convenient way - you can enter a PIN on the bike itself to unlock it. I think the appeal (at least for me, I considered one but never got one) is that it makes the bike harder to steal. Someone can't just ride off on it after they cut your lock. I worry about leaving my $600 bike out in public, so I'd be super paranoid about a $2000+ bike.

Thought they just throwed them at the back of a van rather than biked away. Either way you most likely won't recover it.

Most of the bike thieves around me are opportunists who live within a mile or two of the bikes they steal. Afterwards, they often just leave the bikes out on the street in semi-organized chop shops. Even for bikes without GPS, people have decent luck just cruising around freeway underpasses until the see their bike.

Regardless, part of the allure was the Van Moof has (had?) a program where if they couldn't recover your bike you'd get a new one for just $100

Post reply on HN