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Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

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Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree that 'woke' is a loaded word? Do you agree that by using that word in that way it signals a certain type of political/ideological viewpoint? Do you agree that if someone did not want to signal that viewpoint it they should know?

There was a period of time where self-described woke people identified themselves as woke, and now there's a period of time where people that don't like woke people mock them as woke, and other people just use it as a descriptor, and it all overlaps, and also all sorts of people have a good idea of the corpus of what woke means. At the very least, it's a useful word to refer to the concept it is meant to capture. I t…

Let's try something:

> Is it ok to use the word 'black' instead of African American? I wouldn't want to violate anyone's "civil rights".

Does that sentence imply genuine concern for the feelings of black people?

Don't be daft.

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#193
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead pigments are still legal in the United States[1], and were only banned in the EU a few years ago[2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4434842/ [2] https://speciation.net/News/EU-court-rules-Commission-author...

In Europe, many countries banned lead paints for household use already in the 1920'ies or even earlier. In 2003 there was an EU wide harmonization outlawing lead paints. The article you linked to is apparently about some lawsuit where the EU commission had allowed an exception to this.

Ah, it appears I was mistaken then thanks for the clarification.

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a period of time where self-described woke people identified themselves as woke, and now there's a period of time where people that don't like woke people mock them as woke, and other people just use it as a descriptor, and it all overlaps, and also all sorts of people have a good idea of the corpus of what woke means. At the very least, it's a useful word to refer to the concept it is meant to capture. I t…

Let's try something: > Is it ok to use the word 'black' instead of African American? I wouldn't want to violate anyone's "civil rights". Does that sentence imply genuine concern for the feelings of black people? Don't be daft.

You are assuming the intent of the poster. Your "civil rights" example does not capture the same (ambiguous) spirit that the poster's use of "woke" captures.

1. Did they use scare quotes to make it seem like "woke" is a nonsense concept? 2. Did they use quotes to identify that they are aware that they are perhaps using the term ackwardly, having little experience using it in discussion? 3. Are they putting it in quotes because they happen to already be mostly on your side regarding the word's offensiveness, and wanted to have a shorthand way to express that conviction without getting bogged down in the details? 4. Are they putting it in quotes as shorthand for all the ambiguity of points #1-3 and a myriad of other possible positions?

Your line of reasoning is a moral argument against using this word except in very limited circumstances where the speaker's moral stance is made clear with lots of stated qualifications- with no intent to offend, and with no possible indicated bias against any group that could be slighted by use of the term. This is a hostile norm of expectations that it makes conversations more difficult and less productive.

As far as I can perceive it, the majority of people haven't arrived at the conclusion that woke is a slur. When you are on the front lines of the linguistic fight, you're either gonna have to convince people that the word is hurtful, or at least convince them that if they use the word, bad things will happen to them. I'm not really convinced of either of these right now, and I hope that the majority of people are the same. After all, wokeness is a political stance, and it's pretty rare for descriptors of political stances to get a reputation as such a vile slur that we no longer use the word. After all, Nazi and Communist get thrown around as insults all the time, along with their non-insulting literal denotations.

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#195
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he didn't mean that much by it. Different people, different countries, different contexts. Specially online, we definitely need to give the benefit of the doubt. A friend of mine, who doesn't speak English very well, thought the n word was a completely fine way to reference your mate. He was mortified to know what he was actually saying.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with how the term woke is currently used vis a vis American politics. It's a pejorative typically used as the foundation of a disingenuous argument about being respectful towards others or as a way of demonizing anything you disagree with. Woke was used in line with its most common meaning and scare quotes were added. It wasn't a mistake and the context was made explicit (offending people).…

Woke used to be an endearing term at some point. You're assuming that the quotes are there to poke fun of it, they could be there because it's a foreign or coloquial term that the author is a bit unsure about too. You have not to lose by assuming good intention until irrevocably proven wrong. The US, being influential, ends up exporting a lot of its internal politics, however other parts of the world don't necessarily interpret them in the same way. I've seen people in Brazil using the term woke in a positive way. To be honest, I only learned now that it's always pejorative.

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's try something: > Is it ok to use the word 'black' instead of African American? I wouldn't want to violate anyone's "civil rights". Does that sentence imply genuine concern for the feelings of black people? Don't be daft.

You are assuming the intent of the poster. Your "civil rights" example does not capture the same (ambiguous) spirit that the poster's use of "woke" captures. 1. Did they use scare quotes to make it seem like "woke" is a nonsense concept? 2. Did they use quotes to identify that they are aware that they are perhaps using the term ackwardly, having little experience using it in discussion? 3. Are they putting it in quot…

> You are assuming the intent of the poster. Your "civil rights" example does not capture the same (ambiguous) spirit that the poster's use of "woke" captures.

I gave the benefit of the doubt and a warning that they might be misinterpreted.

> As far as I can perceive it, the majority of people haven't arrived at the conclusion that woke is a slur.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#197
post #185
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you do intend to be respectful, then you will know if using it is offensive or not in your given context. It's very easy to intend to be respectful but misread the context. Also, there are words that are so taboo they are not ok in any context. I find it particularly hard to navigate the English taboos from a non native perspective. I believe the person asking wants to know how the word is seen by others, which…

Direct communication about sensitive topic, and even non-sensitive topics, is offensive or at least rude in many to most cultures. Saying "I want the ketchup" at the kitchen table is generally considered rude.

True, that's why it's useful to ask it online where you care less about offending people instead of asking it at a dinner party.

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming the intent of the poster. Your "civil rights" example does not capture the same (ambiguous) spirit that the poster's use of "woke" captures. 1. Did they use scare quotes to make it seem like "woke" is a nonsense concept? 2. Did they use quotes to identify that they are aware that they are perhaps using the term ackwardly, having little experience using it in discussion? 3. Are they putting it in quot…

> You are assuming the intent of the poster. Your "civil rights" example does not capture the same (ambiguous) spirit that the poster's use of "woke" captures. I gave the benefit of the doubt and a warning that they might be misinterpreted. > As far as I can perceive it, the majority of people haven't arrived at the conclusion that woke is a slur. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)

If you had really given them the benefit of the doubt, you would not have implicitly shamed them for using the language they chose to use. Or explicitly shamed me for defending their choice of language.

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

'Woke' is a very loaded word. A heads up that if you use it in the way you just did, people will assume certain things about you. Unless you don't care, in which case continue so that everyone knows what assumption they should make.

[flagged]

Re: Turmeric’s unexpected link to lead poisoning in Bangladesh

#200
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with how the term woke is currently used vis a vis American politics. It's a pejorative typically used as the foundation of a disingenuous argument about being respectful towards others or as a way of demonizing anything you disagree with. Woke was used in line with its most common meaning and scare quotes were added. It wasn't a mistake and the context was made explicit (offending people).…

Woke used to be an endearing term at some point. You're assuming that the quotes are there to poke fun of it, they could be there because it's a foreign or coloquial term that the author is a bit unsure about too. You have not to lose by assuming good intention until irrevocably proven wrong. The US, being influential, ends up exporting a lot of its internal politics, however other parts of the world don't necessaril…

The context where it was quoted makes clear they are from a culture/community where unfamiliarity is not a reason for the quotation marks.

The intent and meaning is pretty damn clear imo.

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