I feel that the original Gioia article may be more interesting: https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/14-warning-signs-that-you-ar...
The "article" in which he explains how there is no counterculture in a series of linked tweets? Hmmm . . .
Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
191–200 of 1001 posts
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conservatism and traditional values can't be counter-culture since our society is based on them. It will never be counter-anything except progress.
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Some of those look straight out of the NSDAP which itself went from countercultural, to mainstream, to destroyed in a hail of fire and steel.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
So do you believe gay people for example, are a threat to a healthy and balanced society? edit: Oh and conservative culture in my land means mostly lots of alcohol. The first time I vomitted from alcohol was as a teenager on a catholic wine fest, by wine gifted to us from the church. There might be conservatives, that are free from drugs, but mostly they just like other drugs. Drugs are a big problem in todays societ…
Well, it's a simple equation from a societal health perspective. As things are currently, society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact). So from that perspective, promotion of homosexuality runs directly counter to what is best for society as a whole versus what is currently seen as best for any one individual.
> society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact).
The global human population reached 8.0 billion in mid-November 2022 from an estimated 2.5 billion people in 1950,
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there never was stronger counterculture than today I disagree. Can you expand on your claim? YouTube and TikTok are not countercultural, even if some users are using those platforms for genuine countercultural creative acts. By definition, a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural.
If you stick with the comparison they were making to cinema this is like saying a movie star is not countercultural and you'd be right. The influencers with millions of followers are not countercultural, they've broken into the mainstream and are busily selling out for money and fame. At the same time you can have countercultural activities happening on those platforms and the "true" revolutionaries will actively esc…
I think that by definition, true counterculture isn't going to happen on social media platforms.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm strictly considering the definition as "an alternative to dominant [as opposed to popular] opinion and social mores". I'd probably agree the bulk of indier-than-thou creations are produced by people on the left (not all of whom demand we also bow to their political interpretation of the world); some of the work excellent, most of it perhaps not.
That's not what the article is about. The article is about creative content, and how YouTube content is aesthetically all the same. Jordan Peterson videos have the same stupid thumbnails as all other clickbait. People have said it in the thread, but counter-culture is really defined retrospectively. You look at the movements that existed on the periphery but later inspired the mainstream. Velvet Underground wasn't se…
> The article is about creative content, and how YouTube content is aesthetically all the same.
Yeah, but Youtube is mainstream now; it comes installed on almost every single consumer TV available for sale right now. You don't get more mainstream than that.
If you wanted to see counterculture, you'd have to use the youtube alternatives.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#196I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…
I agree with you and I'm definitely not a trad person.
Specifically I think the counter-cultural part in terms of the rise of like...young trad Catholics/religious people is the idea of not partaking in the world. Our current attention economy spends a lot of time trying to get people (including adolescents) to spend their time watching/consuming/interacting, be constantly available, etc. The idea that you don't have to participate is the counter-cultural part.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#197[flagged]
> vaccines are supposed to provide immunity (not "protection") This is, in fact, wrong. Vaccines can't give us immunity. "We’re Asking the Impossible of Vaccines" https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz... > Complete protection against infection has long been hailed as the holy grail of vaccination. It might simply be unachievable. > No infection means no disease, no death, and no transmission, t…
See, so I am right that this is counter culture? I said this and it triggered you to jump and respond with fact checks and whatever.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060212064058/https://www.merri...
Can also show you that the dominant medical narrative around vaccines was that they provide immunity (except in the case of immune compromised individuals).
To this day I'm actually astonished watching the entire medical consensus shift as a direct result for the failure of the COVID vaccines. Absolute objective failure.
What's even more surprising to me is watching the entire narrative move around instead of acknowledging this. Instead of acknowledging the truth, the definitions move around so that the truth is redefined.
The definition of vaccine (provides immunity), recession (two quarters of contraction), woman (female with XX chromosomes), election, freedom (from doing what you want to "the ability to choose"), family (husband, wife and kids), democracy, peaceful ("protests"), racism (treating someone differently because of race, now you're racist for not giving preferential treatment to some1). Global warming became climate change. I've watched how in very few years the entire world has been reprogrammed with new definitions for these like ChatGPT. They kept getting bombarded with new definitions, so that lies will be redefined to be truths.
It is absolutely ridiculous to watch and realize how the media could train people like some neural network to lose the meanings of words and the relation to reality. It is watching people being reprogrammed into newspeak where they literally can't understand what's wrong because the meaning of all words have been replaced in their minds, so they can't have controversial thoughts.
It has become impossible to communicate. It's like talking to ChatGPT trained on some corrupt input, they are writing the same letters and speaking the same syllables but they have a different mental model. There are no other words describing the concepts they have lost, so at this point it's like speaking in two different languages. You'll say they don't have freedom and they will reply that they can choose what they want to do. In 10 years they will own nothing and be happy, because they will redefine rented property to be "yours".
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Changing the colour of your logo on a certain date is not really "supporting". Corps gonna corp and if changing the logo and publishing some nice post brings more money, they'll do it. (While donating to Republicans at the same time)
But what you're describing is exactly where "counterculture" flips over to "culture". It may have been counterculture at one point, but once it's grabbed up by the mainstream canon, it is no longer counterculture. This is an important element of "cool", which is essentially the ebb-and-flow of ideas between counterculture and mainstream culture.
Pretty sure BLM was a media darling from the moment it was discovered. Maybe I have a weird media bubble, but the content I saw was endlessly pro-BLM (even contortions such as the memorable CNN reporter wearing a gas mask against a burning Kenosha with the caption “fiery but mostly peaceful protests”) for most of the last decade.
I can’t think of a way that BLM was ever counter-cultural.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#199No, the counterculture is actually thriving. But many people just don't understand it yet, because of how, well, counter it is to their ideas about culture: its roots are now in conservatism. It currently seems to be cool and edgy amongst the kids to be alt right in pretty much exactly the same way that it was cool and edgy to be very liberal in the 60s. I'm not saying I agree with or subscribe to the tenets of conse…
I don't think a movement can be called countercultural once it's taken over one of the two major US political parties and chosen a president.
90% of the people that would identify with those touchpoints listed above wouldn't and didn't vote for Trump. I think they get lumped in with die hard Trump supporters because they weren't buying in to the same paranoia and delusions that the rest of society was imbibing while Trump was in office.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#200I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…
Hard agree. It’s ironic how tone deaf the article comes off, but I suppose that’s another observation for another time. Another point on trads being a counter culture: You can tell a counterculture is real by the presence of posers and wannabes. Trad culture has this too. Ex: men who hide behind marble statue pfps and are actually single dudes living in a big city.
I think also that “trad” is an umbrella to which many hands hold.
Tradcath: traditional lifestyle Catholics
Trad homeschoolers: arguably some of the most steadfast and longest holding countercultures. They literally have children and raise them opposite or tangential to the current culture norms.
Trad Christian theonomist: complimentarian views on marriage, anti secular government, often homesteaders.
Trad chads: men pursuing lives of purity at any social cost. Staunchly opposed to todays hookup culture and LGBT influences.