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China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

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Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#191

Post by tartoran »

philliphaydon wrote: post #153
thinkingemote wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do we know what the Party line is about this? Do they, for example, blame western propaganda, involvement etc?

Everything get's blamed on the west. I was just reading on facebook about the lockdowns and even the replies are blaming the US for covid and so its the US fault that China has lockdowns.

It’s mental gymnastics to blame the west on locking down large swaths of people and not allow them or bring them food and other necessities. It seems to me Chinese people are quite patient but even that starts running thin after a while. These 0 covid policies seem absolutely idiotic while at the same time I doubt Xi is that stupid and not following other personal agenda.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#192

Post by bee_rider »

zarzavat wrote: post #105
yreg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that once they lift it up / fail to contain an outbreak, it will be a devastating one since their population isn't immunized.

I don’t buy that. No other country was able to completely arrest the spread of COVID through lockdowns, even Australia and New Zealand which are islands surrounded by giant oceans were not able to stop the flood of infections. China borders 14 countries. If there’s “no COVID” it’s because it’s being suppressed, with or without Beijing’s knowledge.

NZ was pretty successful I thought. Didn’t they make an active decision to stop worrying so much about it after getting vaccines?

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#193

Post by amluto »

laputan_machine wrote: post #52
andybak wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand. How does "lab-leak vs non-lab-leak" relate to this?

- The CCP have been routinely supressing any hypothesis on COVID-19 being a lab-borne virus. - The CCP have been stoic on their approach to zero-COVID - IF the virus was lab-borne, and IF the CCP know it was, is it not (very, very remotely) possible they know more about the consequences of this virus? That line of reasoning is pretty conspiratorial, but given that the CCP have been incredibly cagey about the whole af…

> IF the virus was lab-borne, and IF the CCP know it was, is it not (very, very remotely) possible they know more about the consequences of this virus?

Huh?

Suppose it did come from a lab, by malice, incompetence, bad luck, or otherwise. Why would this imply that China knows more about it than anyone else?

(Sure, China would have known more about it in the first few months. And they surely did regardless of whether it came from a lab: after all, it was primarily in China for a little while, and China extensively studied its cases. But it’s been years, and the world has studied Covid far more than any one lab could possibly have studied it.)

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#194

Post by [deleted] »

DriftRegion wrote: post #143

Yeah. When people in mainland China saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation. I'll summarize the ideas I've seen floating around the Chinese internet: - It's a money-making scam by the COVID test manufacturers - It's a money-making scam by the temporary quarantine center manufacturers - It's a failure of bureaucracy ”层层加码” - It's a ploy to increase the depth of state surveillance…

[deleted]

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#195

Post by dumb1224 »

DriftRegion wrote: post #154
DriftRegion wrote: post #143

Yeah. When people in mainland China saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation. I'll summarize the ideas I've seen floating around the Chinese internet: - It's a money-making scam by the COVID test manufacturers - It's a money-making scam by the temporary quarantine center manufacturers - It's a failure of bureaucracy ”层层加码” - It's a ploy to increase the depth of state surveillance…

Here's a recent commentary from a WeChat group (translated via deepl): > The current situation is that Western water forces, through insidious and poisonous means such as the Internet, have created a very dangerous atmosphere of public opinion and incited the people to rebellion. If we are deceived and held hostage by these rumors, what China will end up with will only be a disaster. We have to believe that the count…

Comments like this wouldn't pass the chinese Turing test: after the first sentence it would be reduced to white noise in most people's eyes.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#196

Post by ptero »

throwoutway wrote: post #168
DriftRegion wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a recent commentary from a WeChat group (translated via deepl): > The current situation is that Western water forces, through insidious and poisonous means such as the Internet, have created a very dangerous atmosphere of public opinion and incited the people to rebellion. If we are deceived and held hostage by these rumors, what China will end up with will only be a disaster. We have to believe that the count…

“Wants an early end”? That must be propaganda because it should be obvious to a lay person that it started in late 2019. China government has been trying for 3 years to “have an early end”

It is pretty clear that the quoted is propaganda from the first sentence. When I read "... Western water forces, through insidious and poisonous means such as the Internet ..." as the opening, what comes after is always propaganda.

This does not mean that it cannot contain true statements, but that it could only be useful by providing clues about the goal that the authors want to achieve; not from taking the words as information. My 2c.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#197

Post by WiSaGaN »

danskeren wrote: post #190
spoiler wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple examples from different Tweet authors confirming that crowds aren't being shown. Can you post anything (other than unfunded claims) to refute these? Edit: my comment can come of as aggressive, but I'm genuinely curious, didn't mean to attack you

According to China Insights' latest video then they attempted to blur the audience outside the live broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFA_c9PjBEI?t=1038 . The video has been age-restricted so if you don't have an account then can see it here: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=zFA_c9PjBEI at timestamp 17:18.

Avoid “China Insights” or anyone self claimed as China watchers if you don’t want to become victims of propaganda.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#198

Post by baandam »

yreg wrote: post #99
laputan_machine wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The CCP have been routinely supressing any hypothesis on COVID-19 being a lab-borne virus. - The CCP have been stoic on their approach to zero-COVID - IF the virus was lab-borne, and IF the CCP know it was, is it not (very, very remotely) possible they know more about the consequences of this virus? That line of reasoning is pretty conspiratorial, but given that the CCP have been incredibly cagey about the whole af…

Their behaviour is not that weird for an authoritarian regime and easily explainable without this theory imo. (As you say as well.) What would be an example of a piece of knowledge which they could have about the virus and which would warrant (in our eyes if we knew) 0 covid policy forever? Maybe I lack the imagination. Edit: Please don't downvote replies to this comment with fabricated not-real scenarios. That's exa…

I agree, this is over extrapolating. There was no opportunity for them to not get to this point really unless COVID had gone away at this stage.

It strikes me this is a face saving exercise at this point but they can also use it to stress test supply chains, stress test a general emergency situation, stress test their surveillance.

Not much downside for an authoritarian regime.

To assume they have hidden knowledge on long term dangers doesn't fit the observations IMO. Really, my guess is that the whole thing from the start is a facing saving exercise because of an accident in a culture obsessed with saving face.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#199

Post by amluto »

jahnu wrote: post #76
kevingadd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get it more than once, though.

It's even worse than that; hazard ratio increases significantly with each re-infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3

You’re reading that paper wrong. It says that the cumulative risk of death, long Covid, etc increases with the number of infections. Of course it does: the only was it wouldn’t would be if reinfections has zero or negative risk.

(I’m ignoring whether the paper is correct in the first place.)

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#200

Post by wongarsu »

throwoutway wrote: post #168
DriftRegion wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a recent commentary from a WeChat group (translated via deepl): > The current situation is that Western water forces, through insidious and poisonous means such as the Internet, have created a very dangerous atmosphere of public opinion and incited the people to rebellion. If we are deceived and held hostage by these rumors, what China will end up with will only be a disaster. We have to believe that the count…

“Wants an early end”? That must be propaganda because it should be obvious to a lay person that it started in late 2019. China government has been trying for 3 years to “have an early end”

That could just be due to a failing strategy. China always tried to completely contain and destroy the virus, and had good success with that early on. Many other countries instead went with "let it spread at a rate our health care system can handle".

China's approach had a better chance at bringing it to a fast end early on, but with greater risk if it doesn't end quickly. Now that it is a multi-year affair, they have worse natural immunity than everyone else, on top of their less-successful vaccine. And switching tactics would be an admission of failure, while keeping the current tactic is slowly destroying their economy.

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