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How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

practical.engineering

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Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#191

Post by duckmysick »

lettergram wrote: post #50
acidburnNSA wrote: post #17

A lot of old Cold War preparatory war game scenarios start with EMPs blanketing the continental US. It only takes a few (like 1) nuclear weapon detonations in thin atmosphere (a few dozen km up) where the primary heat transfer mechanism is radiative (vs. convective, conductive) to cause enough EMP to take out pretty much the entire continental US grid. The military is fully hardened against EMP. Civilian infrastructu…

If I recall correctly, in that situation we’d expect a 90% fatality in 1 year. https://energsustainsoc.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s... People thought I was nuts in 2021 when the lockdowns continued and I bought enough tools to survive such an event. I figured, people aren’t working, things gonna break. Lol For reference, some basics would go a long way — survival straw to filter water, 3 month emergency food…

> How many people can? How many know how to preserve meat for long periods without a freezer? How many know how to grow food and store it?

I do. It doesn't matter. I'm under no illusion I'd be able do defend myself and my food when I'm outnumbered and outgunned, being on alert 24/7. All it takes is one mistake and it's game over.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#192

Post by geomark »

quacked wrote: post #41
aliqot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, it rains lead in the fields.

This is a smart instinct, but the ammunition only lasts so long. Someone deep in the boonies with a good stash will be okay, but anyone within 1-5 day's march near the cities had better be prepared to "stack 'em high' for a long time before the stream of starving city ex-pats slows to a trickle.

What are people's opinions on crossbows as supplemental defense weapons? They lack range and ammo is not compact but they are quite stealthy.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#193

Post by [deleted] »

pmontra wrote: post #185
vxNsr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and my guess is this “support of russia” is really just opposition to sending billions to Ukraine. Some might argue that’s the same thing, but to many on the right it’s not.

Isn't at least a part of those billions going back to the USA as purchases of American weapons? They are subsidies to American workers. Example from https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2022/11/15/white... > The $21.7 billion in Pentagon funding is “for equipment for Ukraine, replenishment of Department of Defense stocks and for continued military, intelligence and other defense support,” according to a summar…

[deleted]

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#195

Post by irrational »

baq wrote: post #171
snoopy_telex wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience differs. The right leaning members of my family strongly support Russia and the left leaning strongly support Ukraine. It’s caused a lot of strife in my family. And I don’t think the right folks feel like they’re on the fringe. They do watch a lot of Fox, but they’re not Q folks, afaik at least.

I honestly can’t comprehend how it is possible to support Russia in the US after the Cold War and Putin. I literally have a blank space in my mind when thinking about that.

How is it possible to fly a confederate flag after the civil war? How is it possible to be a nazi sympathizer after WWII?

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#196

Post by armchairhacker »

dylan604 wrote: post #100
Victerius wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regard attacks on critical civilian infrastructure as strategically indistinguishable from nuclear attacks, and deserving of a similar response. Edit: Why is this being downvoted. I'm right. One will kill 100k people instantly. The other will send them back to the Middle Ages. The former group might actually be the luckier one.

What are you going to do, nuke the hurricanes?

If you explode a nuclear bomb in the eye of a hurricane does it make the hurricane stop?

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#197

Post by thaumasiotes »

pmontra wrote: post #185
vxNsr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and my guess is this “support of russia” is really just opposition to sending billions to Ukraine. Some might argue that’s the same thing, but to many on the right it’s not.

Isn't at least a part of those billions going back to the USA as purchases of American weapons? They are subsidies to American workers. Example from https://www.defensenews.com/congress/budget/2022/11/15/white... > The $21.7 billion in Pentagon funding is “for equipment for Ukraine, replenishment of Department of Defense stocks and for continued military, intelligence and other defense support,” according to a summar…

> No more money, the empire shrinks and other countries take what's American now.

What would that be?

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#198

Post by DoingIsLearning »

franciscop wrote: post #157
birksherty wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, people would not die. What was the expectation? That we will die within a day after no power? Electricity is not human's natural basic need like water and oxygen. But civilised life will be extremely terrible, society will collapse, that's the story.

As explained in the video, people can definitely die after just a day without electricity if not prepared: medicines that need refrigeration, connected to a machine for life support, freezing/heating to death (people do die in major heatwaves/blizzards regularly), etc. Sure those are usually not "guys in their 20s-30s" that is the majority demography of HN (I'm not saying everyone ofc...), but there's a lot of people…

> connected to a machine for life support

I am pretty sure all current ICUs have backup power generators (both for equipment and Oxygen line pressure infrastructure). In addition most critical equipment used in hospitals has an independent UPS (ventilators, Infusion pumps etc.) that would extend it a few hours without power.

You would have to both have a formidable blackout and several days of lack of diesel supply for this scenario to materialize. Not saying it is impossible but definitely unlikely.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#199

Post by EGreg »

epistasis wrote: post #153
snoopy_telex wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised that this article doesn't even mention the ongoing, continual attacks on the civilian Ukrainian electrical grid, in a concerted effort to take it out with thousands of cruise missiles and loitering drones. I would guess that it was an intentional decision to avoid. Grady goes to great lengths to prevent anything political in his videos, and the Ukrainian war happens to be politically charged in Americ…

The Russian war is actually one of the least political things in the US right now, there is great bi-partisan support, and it's hard to imagine anything else that garners such broad support from all but the most fringe of fringe (the left-right red-brown alliance against Ukraine is so tiny that it can barely be found). But it is a very timely issue. Maybe in a couple years, after it's no longer timely, he will dive i…

I find it interesting that the words "political" and "politicized" really means "partisan". It's quite political obviously.

Re: How long would society last during a total grid collapse?

#200

Post by hutzlibu »

throwaway742 wrote: post #132
piyushpr134 wrote: post #90

Coming from India and as someone who has lived, growing up (in the 90s), without power for hours and days...trust me you are going to be deeply inconvenienced but not going to die. We had hand fans (hot climate) and fire in large bowl shaped vessels (when cold). Nights without power are spent sleeping on terrace. We had oil lamps for light in the evening. Most night activity would siege by 8pm max to wake up early at…

You can't exactly light a fire if you live in the middle of a large apartment complex.

Nevertheless, people will do it, if they are cold enough. Which will likely add to the problem, when you cannot call the firebrigade.
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