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How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

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Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#191

Post by sph »

koonsolo wrote: post #180
sph wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't know much about something, here's my opinion." The fact that you don't distinguish between categories of drugs is, no offence, a major indicator of ignorance in the subject matter. Hallucinogens are not stimulants are not depressants are not dissociatives are not alcohol. If you mean "illegal drugs", do you really think that the objective, scientific threshold between harmful and harmless is legality? You ar…

Whatever you recommend to take, I'm sure one of the people I know took it. Did it improve their already normal life? I highly doubt it. I'm not discussing that when you have an illness or mental problem that drugs might help (or which drugs). But just take it because somehow it would "enhance" your life... still need to see proof of that. Most of the "enhancement" that I saw went to other direction.

I stand by my point.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#192

Post by ilyt »

soco wrote: post #186
bheadmaster wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences. I sincerely doubt that there are scientists questioning whether clockwork elves are real or not. Hallucinations are considered hallucinations because they are seen only by the person who ingested the hallucinogens, and none of the other people who might be present but didn't ingest the hallucinogens. Consistence is crucial to the v…

By that definition a recurring dream would be reality - consistence it has, no hallucinogens involved.

Well, no, as you fail the other condition - nobody else observing it.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#193

Post by ilyt »

stevev wrote: post #78
vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

I’ve had dreams where I carry on actual conversations with people in my own life and or strangers. Realizing that I’m dreaming, I ask questions and to my surprise their answers and reactions are not of my doing. I ask in the manner of only listening immediately (clear minded with no thinking) so as to not influence their response. The brain is truly mysterious. I wonder if hidden personas are created and stored and r…

> Realizing that I’m dreaming, I ask questions and to my surprise their answers and reactions are not of my doing

The way I see it dreams are unconcious imagination running wild. Lucid dreaming is your lucid brain being put in reality created by your unconscious mind, so there is no real way for the lucid part to "know" the info beforehand, just like there is no way to predict what you will dream about this night

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#194

Post by Trasmatta »

uwagar wrote: post #68
Trasmatta wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience isn't bad until it is. And then the bell can't be unrung.

yes but if u stick long enough, a bad trip can turn into a good trip. just some bit flips and bang u are out into hyperspace again.

There's no guarantee of this.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#195

Post by Trasmatta »

pmoriarty wrote: post #171
Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

"The main message I got out of those experiences was that everything I learned in hell could have been learned in other, safer, ways." I learned way more in my bad trips than in my good ones. The good ones were fun, but pretty superficial. The bad ones forced me to face my shit that I might never had faced if I hadn't done psychedelics. Going through pain and suffering has also made me a lot more empathetic to the pa…

It's possible to learn empathy without having to spend eternity in hell first.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#196

Post by Trasmatta »

DenisM wrote: post #86
Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

You had a couple of bad trips? They way you describe them it was awfully bad, and yet you did it more than once?

Yep I was dumb. The first one was bad. The second one was infinitely worse.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#197

Post by Trasmatta »

tempestn wrote: post #132
Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

After experiencing a subjective "literal eternity of hell" once, why did you do it again?

Because I'm a dumb human, and wanted to touch the flame again.

There was some thought that something important was waiting for me there, or that doing it again would heal the pain from the previous time.

It didn't heal me, and it was even worse the second time.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#198

Post by uwagar »

Trasmatta wrote: post #194
uwagar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but if u stick long enough, a bad trip can turn into a good trip. just some bit flips and bang u are out into hyperspace again.

There's no guarantee of this.

but there is also no guarantee of every trip being your kind of horrible experience either (i do respect your experience though and its a good warning you are giving people that just blindly waltz into it). i've had my share of horror trips and some totally life changingly awesome trips too.

basically, if you dont end up in hospital or break out of the trip with benzos or similar, then you are going to turn that bad trip into something less bad to good was what i was trying to get at.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#199

Post by ilyt »

pmoriarty wrote: post #143
nso wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seeing something when on strong drugs that you can't see when not is not strong evidence for its existence.

"You seeing something when on strong drugs that you can't see when not is not strong evidence for its existence." This assumes that the sober state of mind takes precedence over the altered state of mind. But there's no evidence that the one is superior to the other. One could equally claim that things that one experiences when sober does not exist, and only things that one experiences while altered does. Which is th…

>This assumes that the sober state of mind takes precedence over the altered state of mind. But there's no evidence that the one is superior to the other.

First, define "superior".

Second, if you have 20 sober people looking at thing and reporting it looks the same, then you drug them and every one of them reports someone else, I'm giving that to the "sober mind", even when some tiny minority might be reporting in "sober" state what others would classify as "drugged"

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#200

Post by boppo1 »

Flatcore999 wrote: post #170
nikisweeting wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This maybe your conclusion but stating it as base truth is a pretty uninformed take. DNA was discovered on LSD, among countless other major works in math, science, literature, CS, and other fields. Just Google "things discovered on drugs" or "famous/accomplished people that took drugs", the list is loooong.

DNA was not discovered on LSD: https://psychedelicpress.co.uk/blogs/psychedelic-press-blog/...

Yep. I'm not going to bother replying or arguing with the posters that are touting psychedelics as causing breakthroughs in science and art. It's a common claim and it's exhausting.

When I was a teenager, I heard the claim and believed it. All these musicians and artists I looked up to did psychedelics! So I took psychedelics! What I came to find, however, was that all of those artists had some sort of classical training early in life and a decade of working hard touring/painting and building their professional practice. The drugs came after, not before.

I'll grant that stimulants may have made positive contributions. Oh how I love/hate stimulants.

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