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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#191

Post by gruez »

Maursault wrote: post #178
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination The idea that you can order someone to perform a medical procedure because they work for you is disguisting. Where does this end?

> Where does it end? It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal . 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID. The People have the stronge…

>It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal. 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID.

Way to dodge the question. Also, I think you're missing the point. I don't think OP or most other anti vax mandate people think that the covid vaccine is a risky procedure, or that the public is better off on net for it. They're against it because it sets a precedent for government to mandate medical procedures.

>No one ever has any right to spread infection, not even libertarians.

You literally do, though. It's not against the law to get on a packed subway while you're sick as a dog, for instance.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#192

Post by koolba »

colinmhayes wrote: post #152
spaetzleesser wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do firefighters have no effect on tourism? Without them you can not run a city. Same for many other jobs like garbage collection.

Because they can be replaced by vaccinated people I guess and if one or two can’t that’s ok because they’ve still got all the other ones. Kyrie and the Yankees can’t be replaced.

I’d be willing to bet I could more easily find a team full of people to swing a bat or throw a ball than a couple thousand people willing and able to rush into a burning building.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#193

Post by ls15 »

tptacek wrote: post #20

This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…

I think that the headline describes the ruling better

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#194

Post by drak0n1c »

Maursault wrote: post #168
xfitm3 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A growing number of doctors have threatened to withhold treatment from the unvaccinated, sparking backlash from doctors and bioethicists who say such sentiments violate the Hippocratic Oath. Those critics are even more troubled by the silence from professional organizations tasked with upholding medical ethics. The mandate should have never existed.

Quoted post unavailable.

Please be careful about spreading misinformation. Vaccines were not widely available until spring of 2021, after the election. Only select few essential healthcare staff were eligible in 2020, and US deliveries began December 14th, 2020.[1] During the 2020 election season you describe it was actually the opponents of President Trump who were encouraging vaccine skepticism.[2]

[1] (see HHS timeline) https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/index.html

[2] (see bulleted video hyperlinks): https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/campaign-press-rel...

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#195

Post by calvinmorrison »

jakogut wrote: post #10

Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place? The state of New York famously responded to the outcome of NYSRPA v. Bruen, which overturned the defacto ban on concealed carry, by decl…

Unless the government actually about faces and holds the elected officials responsible, it devolves into unsanctioned violence, be it domestic terrorism, civil war, unrest, whatever the game of the week. That's what happens.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#196

Post by Maursault »

gruez wrote: post #191
Maursault wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where does it end? It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal . 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID. The People have the stronge…

>It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal. 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID. Way to dodge the question. Also, I think you're…

> They're against it because it sets a precedent for government to mandate medical procedures.

This is just a part of what is so ridiculous about their objections and reveals ignorance and a misunderstanding of law. The government isn't required to establish precedent here because it is already the law of the land.[1][2][3] That said, precedent has been very well established for a very long time.[4]

[1] https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title50/cha...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act#Emerg...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Health_Service_Act

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#197

Post by colinmhayes »

koolba wrote: post #192
colinmhayes wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they can be replaced by vaccinated people I guess and if one or two can’t that’s ok because they’ve still got all the other ones. Kyrie and the Yankees can’t be replaced.

I’d be willing to bet I could more easily find a team full of people to swing a bat or throw a ball than a couple thousand people willing and able to rush into a burning building.

Can you get people to pay to watch them?

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#198

Post by jquery »

busymom0 wrote: post #107
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, that's the point. The mandate presumably would have been legal if Adams hadn't added those arbitrary exemptions.

Doubt it. The court also said the following (court towards the end indicates that the mandate didn’t make sense even when the order was issued): > “”Being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting Covid-19. As of the day of this Decision, CDC guidelines regarding quarantine and isolation are the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. The Petitioners should not have been ter…

Yikes. This reads like a gish-gallop of anti-vax talking points. I don’t even necessarily disagree with the decision to reinstate the employees, but this legal reasoning is embarrassing.

Edit: I’m happy to learn that the New York Supreme Court is not the highest court in New York, this entire thread is misleading (I think people are assuming New York’s highest court slapped down vaccine mandates). I don’t know why New York has to name their courts in such weird ways…

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#199

Post by jquery »

VagueMag wrote: post #173
throwawaylinux wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An attitude which I've found to be curiously pervasive amongst self-proclaimed egalitarians and socialists.

FWIW, there was a vocal contingent of Marxists on Twitter who saw the mandates for the erosion of worker power and rights that they were, and vigorously opposed them. Richard Wolff even came around eventually, as well as Jimmy Dore after having his own personal run-in with the nasty side effects which are all too common with these vaccines. Sadly, though, some of the most awful scapegoaters of the unvaccinated were i…

No post body was provided.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#200

Post by seneca »

alasdair_ wrote: post #116
phpisthebest wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also shown in polling data, where congress on the whole has an approval rating of less than 10%, yet most years the incumbent is reelected That statistic alone has me questioning if democracy is a good system

Democracy is fine. Representative democracy can go to hell.

You're contradicting thousands of years of political philosophy and theory with that statement. Democracy is a complete mess of whiplashing changes. It's only real redeeming factor is that it's better than tyranny by a monarch or aristocracy. That's an incredibly important factor though, so you need to find a way to make it work. Representative democracy is a way to temper the erratic will of the people and turn democracy into a workable form of government.
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