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/r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

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Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#191

Post by seydor »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #14

When you realise Reddit is moderated by unpaid megalomaniacs and teenagers, everything starts to fall into place. In some ways Reddit is worse than Facebook because it is influenced by anonymous entities with zero checks and balances.

I wish it was teenagers. Reddit is terrified of old moderators leaving so they allow them free reign with zero accountability or even a way for users to dispute anything. They re probably having a hard time finding young people (they prefer discord) and are stuck with the same aging people moderating for 15 years. And those have become way worse megalomaniacs over time

Evidently, teenagers are not the problem

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#192

Post by avereveard »

jVinc wrote: post #167
ryzvonusef wrote: post #5

https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/xzdkio/stab... apparently, there is a separate drama about hacking at SD and accusations of ownership of code.

This is such a weird drama. The way I read it SD was effectively trying to put pressure on a guy because he developed a popular UI for using SD, and made that UI also support another model. So all their moral grandstanding is effectively just about trying to keep the popular gateway site pointing only at them, but their throwing shit at the guy who gave them that huge free PR push... What an odd position, but underst…

it's seem a case of "build an audience and monetize later" except they gave the golden gose itself to the audience instead of the egg,

now they're in "monetize later" and some rando's internet repo is more usable and has a better pipeline than their "dreamstudio", and to boot now these rare gtx aren't rare anymore thanks to the bitcoin crash, so enthusiast can readily use the model at home.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#193

Post by nullc »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #188
nullc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but the model weights themselves are currently understood to be uncopyrightable, and it's pretty inconceivable that the model could become copyrightable without becoming a derivative work of the training data. Unless these AI companies want google and facebook to be literally the only companies in the world that can train large scale machine learning (by using their TOS to get licenses from their users) they…

“ it's pretty inconceivable that the model could become copyrightable” If it costs $10 million to find information/weightings/etc., our current legal system would consider that intellectual property which might not be copyrightable but would be considered IP theft if stolen.

Yes, it could be a trade secret, but if the trade secrecy would still apply is extraordinarily fact specific.

If they were negligent in handling it, e.g. left it on a publicly accessible share and some member of the public stumbled into it, then trade secret protection would likely be lost.

If some employee violated their NDA and snuck it out-- well that would be a different matter. etc.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#194

Post by Brusco_RF »

practice9 wrote: post #181
widowlark wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was banned from r/streetphotography with my first post because, despite it being a street photograph, the moderator on the clock at the time thought it was 'too derivative' - It was a permanent ban. Since then, I have taken tens of thousands of street photos, and the fact that I cannot post them on the most-used street photography subreddit is confusing and shitty.

Similar problems exists with Wikipedia and StackOverflow moderators. IMO people who become moderators just enjoy exercising their (often unchecked) power in these online communities.

When you frame it like that it becomes the tale as old as time; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#196

Post by Karawebnetwork »

dang wrote: post #172
nonbirithm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did actually submit a link to a GitHub issue about this, but it seems to have been blocked by HN. I can see the post title when I'm logged in but as a guest it doesn't show anything at all. The post wasn't even flagged as dead. It doesn't show up in my submitted links list when logged out either. I don't know if it tripped an internal filter on HN or something. Here is the link to the post in case you're curious. h…

We banned github.com/automatic1111 a while back because it was being promoted by some sort of spam ring. We can let that particular link go through if it's the best one on the topic but perhaps there is something else out there?

I can't speak to how people were behaving on HN, but automatic1111's is pretty much the gold standard for people who use SD locally on their machine, which might explain why a lot of people were posting it. It was however present on some recurring 'chan threads about SD, which might explain why it is linked to some unsavory behavior.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#197

Post by nonbirithm »

nullc wrote: post #91
shadowgovt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the dude spent half a million dollars on training SD, I wouldn't be surprised if even though he chose to open-source the trained model, he has strong opinions on whether people should have the right to choose to open-source such things vs. having third-party crackers breach their systems and publish for them.

Perhaps, but the model weights themselves are currently understood to be uncopyrightable, and it's pretty inconceivable that the model could become copyrightable without becoming a derivative work of the training data. Unless these AI companies want google and facebook to be literally the only companies in the world that can train large scale machine learning (by using their TOS to get licenses from their users) they…

> [...] it's pretty inconceivable that the model could become copyrightable without becoming a derivative work of the training data.

Another perspective that may become important is the fact that not all cultures share the same interpretation of copyright. In Japan there was a case in which a court ruled that selling a memory card with preloaded save data for a video game was a breach of the original work's integrity.[1]

This I think will get greater attention in the near future because a large portion of the interest in SD stems from generating new art derived from the styles of art on Pixiv, a Japanese website. The data for many popular forks of SD like Waifu Diffusion and the proprietary NovelAI model were sourced from Western sites like Danbooru, which has been known for violating copyright and artist takedown requests by reposting art without the creator's permission for many years. With the sheer popularity of SD and the fact that so much of the innovation came off of the backs of thousands of artists who weren't so much as asked for consent, it remains to be seen if attitudes towards those sites and this process of mass-scale data collection will remain the same in the near future.

I also have to wonder what the implications would have been if NovelAI ended up launching what is now the leaked model as a paid service, given the unresolved question of consent that surrounds the original data.

HN and the people who support SD can have their own opinions about copyright not applying in this specific case. They can delve into the technicalities of why they think the models are not copyrightable. But even beyond legal means, the artists can still ask the programmers to take everything down, and potentially be refused. The insistence that "it's different in this case" can break the hearts of people that see the world differently.

I think this will be a debate that transcends arguing over the technicalities of copyright, involving fundamentally differing cultural values of how the acts of creation and reproduction should be treated with respect. It will not end with "how will this fit into the existing (Western-centric) framework of copyright," but "what is the right thing to do."

[1] https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%A8%E3%81%8D%E3%82%81%...

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#198

Post by ZiiS »

lrae wrote: post #154
dmonitor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most reddit users these days even prefer it to community-run ones. Not uncommon to have two subreddits at a launch of a game and the unofficial one will always "lose". Games often link to the "official" reddit community from inside the game, so no surprise that traffic will be driven there

Sure, they also share them on their socials and are vocal about it. But even besides that, if you look at any time this situation happened in the last ~3 years, you'll always see more users being vocal about the preferring the official sub than the community one in comparison. Reddit's demographics changed, and it just exploded over the last couple of years with "casual users", "went mainstream" or what ever one want…

Eternal September

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#199

Post by vlunkr »

Brusco_RF wrote: post #153
vlunkr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting downvoted is not at all the same as having comments deleted, or getting banned, which is incredibly common on some subreddits. Also not giving new users access to downvotes hopefully means that those downvoting are somewhat good citizens.

Lets not kid ourselves, the main reason HN is much higher quality than Reddit is because of the users. It could all change tomorrow if they find out about us. People forget that Reddit used to look a lot like HN does today in like 2006-10 before the Digg exodus. Today Reddit is almost entirely kids.

Also the quantity of users and comments. You can still see comments that have been downvoted by scrolling a bit. On Reddit, unpopular comments will be buried and require extra clicks to access.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#200

Post by uncletammy »

Scalene2 wrote: post #133
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some ways Reddit is worse than Facebook because it is influenced by anonymous entities with zero checks and balances. The discourse in many subreddits is invisibly dictated by the moderators. It's not obvious when you browse posts because everything is organically coming from random people. However, moderators can entirely shape the conversation by only allowing posts that say what they want. In other words: The…

Best example is r/legaladvice. Good luck getting any advice on dealing with corrupt law enforcement.

Can you elaborate or give some context? I know nothing about this sub or it's history.
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