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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#191

Post by AlwaysRock »

chevman wrote: post #157
sleepdreamy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When…

When I negotiated to buy my most recent car online back in 2016, the term to use was 'final out the door cost'. I reached out to maybe 7 or 8 dealers, had a couple that refused to provide a total itemized cost, and then got back 5 quotes that varied quite a bit (like $7500 on a $30k car). Did one round of negotiation which ended up lowering the lowest price another thousand bucks or so and went with that dealership.

Things are drastically different now. Bought a 1 year old car for cash last year after an accident totaled my old car. Dealerships have no/low inventory. We had cars sold when we were on the way to the dealership to test drive them. Any negotiation was laughed at.

Absolutely brutal.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#192

Post by peoplefromibiza »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #173
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why should I care? Hypothetically that would make me rich in a very short time span and I could afford to buy and resell more expensive cars or buy at volume and make better deals. You would be basically financing my business, at zero interest rate, while I also make a profit on the money you give me. You do realize that profit is "the excess of returns over expenditure"? it's not given that you are making more money…

> I got more cars coming, see you on Monday! This is sort of the problem, though, isn't it? There aren't more cars coming on Monday.

Have you run out of money?

your assumption is that by buying everything I got from me and selling at an higher price than me (doesn't mean higher markup) you are pushing me out of business.

Or that you are monopolizing the market buying all the cars, assuming that you can buy the tens of millions of used cars around.

You're also assuming that I am stupid and I'll let you do that, in the name of principles.

The second time I see you coming in to buy a car I'll check who you are, the third time you come you'll be greeted by a "we are not a B2B company, find another supplier".

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#193

Post by peoplefromibiza »

alach11 wrote: post #177
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are not overspending anyone, they are simply trading their time to be first in line, while I buy it from my comfy chair at home at the price listed on the website. and they also need to hope there are enough stupid people on the internet to buy at a markup something sold in the hundred of millions of pieces,one indistinguishable from the other. more proof that an honest business can serve society better than sca…

How do you feel about ticket scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets, then relist them for higher prices? This is only possible because the the tickets are being sold originally for under market value.

> How do you feel about ticket scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets,

As someone who used to attend more than a 100 concerts/year, I sincerely hate them.

> This is only possible because the the tickets are being sold originally for under market value

No, this is only possible because tickets can be made artificially scarce.

And because there is a portion of the population who owns more money than is able to spend.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#194

Post by __alexs »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #152
zachshefska wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is SO inefficient. While you’re right in describing the principles of supply and demand, the reality is that buying a car should be 10x simpler and the price should just be the price. No games, no haggling, no BS add-ons that increase dealer profits. Retail auto is due for a wake up call, and I sense it’s happening right now. You wouldn’t need markups to make extra profit if the cost infrastructure associa…

The market is inefficient because dealerships form a cartel, divvy up the geographical areas where they operate and don't allow any competition there. If it was an actual market, carmakers would sell off cars to dealers (e.g. at mega-auctions), who can set up wherever they want (or sell online), and all the games, haggling etc. would disappear.

But then where would the manufacturers put all the financial engineering shenanigans?

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#195

Post by coryrc »

millerm wrote: post #113
n4r9 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're a business after all. I'd argue that using this phrase to write off wider ethical concerns is one of the key issues here.

Exactly. Many people actually ”need” things, but always end up getting beaten by the person who has more $. It’s just constant battering of people that aren’t as well off as others. It’s often a disgusting system. The poor always suffer due to this “I’ll just hand wave to the ethics and talk about capitalism“.

Capitalism brought hundreds of millions out of abject poverty in the last thirty years. It has real consequences. The poor in the US have better living standards than half the planet and every opportunity to better except their own cultures holding them back. The left refuses to acknowledge or deal with this, creating generational poverty. What's not to blame is "capitalism".

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#196

Post by lelanthran »

mzs wrote: post #185
lelanthran wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have a theory many charge this if you're from out of town and won't be paying them later for maintenance services. How do they know you're from out of town when they give you the quote? Do they refuse to quote without a valid and verified address? After all, can't you just give them a local address when asking for the quote?

Your driver's license being photo copied is one of the first steps in buying a car at a dealership.

> Your driver's license being photo copied is one of the first steps in buying a car at a dealership.

Before you request a quote? I was suggesting getting the quote before buying.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#197

Post by lelanthran »

gruez wrote: post #114
lelanthran wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have a theory many charge this if you're from out of town and won't be paying them later for maintenance services. How do they know you're from out of town when they give you the quote? Do they refuse to quote without a valid and verified address? After all, can't you just give them a local address when asking for the quote?

That might get tricky if they use your fake address in later pieces of paperwork.

> That might get tricky if they use your fake address in later pieces of paperwork.

It's alright, you can give them a different address after receiving the quote.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#198

Post by jjoonathan »

jollyllama wrote: post #190
jjoonathan wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Even worse: the housing market. The pattern seems to be: if you create value, you get optimized away. If you buy, screw things up to create scarcity, and flip, you make bank.

Absolutely. Also, higher education.

Health care, housing, and education -- every year you pay more and get less.

It's like Amdahl's Law for capitalism: some things are easy to optimize, other things aren't, and eventually the things that aren't easy to optimize dominate the system.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#199

Post by dawnerd »

atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

That’s not what’s happening though. Dealers are artificially limiting supply to induce that sort of logic. They have massive lots of cars parked here in staging areas yet if you check their in stock inventory they quote lead times and wait lists. Surprise though, they have plenty they’re just a bunch of liars taking advantage of the situation.

The other issue is the classic bait and switch they do. They’ll market one price online but once you’re in person suddenly that price is marked up 15k.

The solution? Remove dealers from the equation and let the manufacturers sell directly.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#200

Post by jjoonathan »

mox1 wrote: post #166
sleepdreamy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When…

But you still bought the car!!! That's the entire point of these crappy business practices. At the end of the day, you paid. Thus they continue doing the same thing. If you really wanted this to change, don't reward the bad business practices. (Side note: This is a common topic on reddit /askcarsales. Honest dealers are basically forced to do some of these things. The shady dealers advertise lower prices, but lots of…

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