Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric • Hacker News Board

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#191

Post by thghtihadanacct » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:12 AM UTC

pengaru wrote: post #103

s0rce wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that we should build desalination, even if we can "afford" it. There are agricultural users of water paying astronomically lower prices due to long standing water rights. It would almost certainly be cheaper to pay them to conserve (grow less of water-wasting crops, leave fields fallow, or upgrade to more efficient drip irrigation). The urban water use is around 20%, making them pay billions for this 20% m…

Or just make agriculture desalinate their own water on their own dime and let the people continue drinking the ground/river water. It's not like you should be irrigating fields with that mineral-heavy water anyways, isn't it slowly salting the land? If agriculture had to foot the bill for their desalination needs they would become more efficient automatically.

OOH, pipe the water in from mid ocean, farmers (us subsidizing of course) desal and use the water. This has prob been brought up but i aint heard it yet. I like it.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#192

Post by thghtihadanacct » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:14 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #108

TimTheTinker wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leave fields fallow Please no. We're facing intense inflation, and the solution has to involve supply-side improvements, not just demand-side tweaks. Subsidies for drip irrigation sounds interesting, though - as long as actual water usage reduction is part of the requirement.

California can internally counter that problem by giving people a corresponding tax break or any number of policy remedies. For the rest of the nation, there is no obvious cooperative framework to explain to Californians on why they should face the looming risk of a water crisis on behalf of the rest of the nation, especially in such a hostile national atmosphere. California can also continue to provide favorable eco…

I wouldnt say drying up but not refilling up but, yeah, otherwise, california is the garden, fruit, non-wheat bread basket of most the country. This water was being used to build wealth among a small group of farmers that sent the food out of state. I say cut it off.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#193

Post by thghtihadanacct » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:15 AM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #138

s0rce wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be objectively better to pay someone to not grow alfalfa for export to the middle east then it is to waste water on growing it. In the end, this is likely cheaper than building desalination infrastructure to make up for the wasted water so you save money. Don't think this is a good long term plan though.

> In the end, this is likely cheaper than building desalination infrastructure to make up for the wasted water so you save money. Fresh water is scarce and the demand for fresh water continues to grow annually (growing population, growing economy, etc). Fresh water is an appreciating asset, with fixed (or reducing) supply. Increasing the supply of fresh water is beneficial for many, many reasons globally, and increas…

I say abolish golf courses

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#194

Post by wildmanx » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 11:54 AM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #186

wildmanx wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The byproducts are sea salt. You might pay less for it at the store. 1. It's not some food-grade "sea salt" that you get. It's brine, which, dumped into the ocean, wreaks havoc in the local ecosystem. It's heavier than sea water, sinks to the ground, etc. Not something you want in your backyard. 2. Energy is not free. No, nuclear isn't either. Want a uranium mine in your backyard? Or a coal mine? Wasting less water…

> It's brine, which, dumped into the ocean, wreaks havoc in the local ecosystem Only if dumped such that it's concentrated. Either don't dump it or do so in a more dispersed manner. > Energy is not free. No, nuclear isn't either. You don't need free energy for desal to be more than worthwhile. > Want a uranium mine in your backyard? If I had a backyard, then sure, why not?

> > Energy is not free. No, nuclear isn't either.

> You don't need free energy for desal to be more than worthwhile.

It was a response to that the only byproduct of desalination is sea salt. It's not (or it's a bad-faith misleading statement). You need to account for the energy you put in which has its own byproducts.

> > Want a uranium mine in your backyard?

> If I had a backyard, then sure, why not?

You may want to check out the health implications before you commit.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#195

Post by yellowapple » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 4:15 AM UTC

wildmanx wrote: post #194

yellowapple wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's brine, which, dumped into the ocean, wreaks havoc in the local ecosystem Only if dumped such that it's concentrated. Either don't dump it or do so in a more dispersed manner. > Energy is not free. No, nuclear isn't either. You don't need free energy for desal to be more than worthwhile. > Want a uranium mine in your backyard? If I had a backyard, then sure, why not?

> > Energy is not free. No, nuclear isn't either. > You don't need free energy for desal to be more than worthwhile. It was a response to that the only byproduct of desalination is sea salt. It's not (or it's a bad-faith misleading statement). You need to account for the energy you put in which has its own byproducts. > > Want a uranium mine in your backyard? > If I had a backyard, then sure, why not? You may want to…

> It was a response to that the only byproduct of desalination is sea salt.

Because it is. Energy requirements are inputs, not products ("by" or otherwise). They may have their own byproducts, but those happen anyway (and in the case of nuclear, are so tiny in quantity compared to those of desalination to be not really worth discussing).

> You may want to check out the health implications before you commit.

The health implications of drought and famine are arguably far more pressing.