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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#191

Post by lhecker »

TIPSIO wrote: post #158
lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

This is way above my pay grade. Just don’t take anything personal. Being defensive / know best is in this industry everywhere at all levels and organizations. Being humble in general is hard, being humble in code reviews is harder, being humble to Internet comments in any forum… sometimes impossible. Then repeat that with two super genius experts - eek. You find everyone is usually trying their best if you ever have…

Oh yeah, for sure. I can't tell you how much I regret being that defensive about something that benign. This was certainly a life lesson. I've apologized to Casey in person before (well, to my best ability) and I'll apologize again if given the opportunity to do so.

I just wish people wouldn't say I'm taking credit, when it's an old, widely used idea and when I spent such an incredible amount of time reading and understanding DirectWrite/Direct2D's code in order to ship this renderer in the state it is.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#192

Post by aulin »

curiousgal wrote: post #44

Idk, personally I hardly think of DHowett's comment footer as insulting. Going through the Github thread the OP does come off as standoff-ish. It's just a reminder that being right is not always enough.

Same here, maybe it's because I'm not a native speaker, but I didn't see anything offensive in the discussion. It wasn't even a particularly productive discussion worth crediting OP for.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#193

Post by user3939382 »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

> dunking on my team

Translation: While I'm ostensibly apologizing please note that I'm actually the victim here, everyone please feel sorry for me and my team.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#194

Post by ineedasername »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #154
eric_b wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of tone really doesn't engender sympathy: > We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah. > I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? The blog post is matter-of-fact, and Casey is right: however, he said himself that it was trivial to do this. Is it not acceptable that we use the same language? Your "apology" really is anything but. If anything you and…

> We admit this feature began with a kerfuffle we caused in the summer of 2021. When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. We relied on our existing experiences and we leaned heavily on our partner teams’ work to conclude the DirectWrite general purpose renderer was the best fit for our product. We were wrong. As such, we dedicate this experimental renderer to t…

>That is "combative, thin-skinned and hostile to outsiders"?

Yes. They reference an apology, didn't actually make one, and it was roughly a year after they were combative, thin skinned, and hostile to outsiders. So their words now don't negate the fact that they were actually those things.

And the original now-edited response here was itself still combative, so I don't have much reason to believe they've actually changed rather than just trying to put a nice public face on about it.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#195

Post by ______-_-______ »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

Yikes. Ego and open source do not mix well.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#196

Post by bena »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

In the future, when you think someone is being a fucking moron, never actually call them a fucking moron. Because if it turns out they weren't a fucking moron and you were wrong all along, you're going to look, well, like this.

The way to navigate the conversation would have been something closer to this: "I thought it was already doing this, but I'll check again, maybe we misread the doc. Also there's X, Y, and Z to consider that may make what you suggest harder than it seems on the surface".

That all being said, I kind of don't like anybody in this kerfluffle. I think your assessment of his character isn't terribly off the mark and now you're caught in a version of "the worst person you know actually has a point".

Now, we can sit here and discuss whether his approach engendered a response in kind or not, but at some point, someone has to be the duck and let the personal slide off their backs.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#197

Post by [deleted] »

anothernewdude wrote: post #149
Longhanks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Windows Terminal team reeks of this. There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart because they're reimplementing something both Linux and macOS had for *years*, as if the whole world of CLI was waiting for their savior.

The whole world of CLI has been using a poor open source reimplementation of linux subsystems on windows for decades.

[deleted]

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#198

Post by TIPSIO »

chrisseaton wrote: post #189
gldnspud wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps leave sarcasm out of technical blog posts, or add a footnote to indicate sarcasm? I couldn't tell you were being sarcastic and it seems others couldn't as well. I only found out through this comment. Text is the worst medium for sarcasm since sarcasm is often signaled by vocal inflection or body language, neither of which are present in your post.

Baffles me that people think sarcasm is a good way to communicate on the internet. You are begging to be misunderstood, either accidentally, or maliciously.

It is a good way to communicate though.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#199

Post by palisade »

miiiiiike wrote: post #37

Issue: Feeling bad after interaction with OSS developer at . Steps to reproduce: 1) Report a bug. 2) Get called dumb by developers at . 3) Demonstrate that it is, in fact, a bug with examples, test cases, and offer a potential fix/PR. 4) Hear that it’s being “handled internally”. 5) Wait for the blog post re-iterating what they called dumb, talking about how great the team is that fixed it, and see your demonstration…

I've pointed out flaws to the dev team at MS they were pretty quick about acknowledging it and fixing the problem. There were some showstoppers in the media encoders early on when they were developing win10. The only thing they asked is that I prove the issue was real and as soon as I did they were on top of it.

They were also pretty quick and helpful with answering any question I had. I guess it depends on what team you get ahold of. Or, maybe how you ask the questions. I always try to be polite and patient, which is hard to do when you're in a time crunch.

They really were trying to push azure hard in a situation that didn't require it. It was odd at the time. I chalked it up to the team evangelizing a new feature that they knew was going to rake in money, so they were required to bring it up. I remember it was funny and a little annoying to have to keep saying no... now let's get back on topic.

But, they never insulted me. It was a very professional experience. Sad to hear this kind of thing is happening now.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#200

Post by ineedasername »

markus_zhang wrote: post #108
warent wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? ... We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah. Someone is upset and venting. This comment comes across to me as "Ugh we already said the right words. Their distress is so inconvenient to me, why isn't it stopping?" EDIT: Typically in this community we denote when a comment has been edited to change a critical piece…

Everyone can rant. I think it's fine, at least a lot better than a faked smile.

A fake smile at least tells me they know that a different response would be unprofessional, rather than making the an unprofessional comment and not being self aware enough to realize it until it's pointed out.
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