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Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

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Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#191

Post by shkkmo »

jddil wrote: post #89

Oh good we're discussing this again. The rancor this protest has caused in certain tech circles has really shown that we believe we're somehow different or better than the rest of the world. In the real world 1 specific region has violated the norms the rest of us have agreed to ... you don't get to indiscriminately kill innocents while taking their land and has accted appropriately by cutting them off. In the tech w…

> In the tech world we are screaming about how the people in that region are getting inconvenienced by the free tools we provide because we are supposed to be above "politics"

It isn't about being above politics. It is about abusing and destroying trust.

If you want to add messaging to your project, that is not harmful to the ecosystem and will just cause some people to view you as unprofessional. If you try to actively destroy people's file, you have stepped up at over that line are attacking and harming people, not just "inconveniencing" them.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#192

Post by [deleted] »

slackfan wrote: post #180
slackfan wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a wonderful thing to able be do, if the woke brigade wasn't screaming "YOU'RE WITH US OR YOU'RE AGAINST US" a parent over. ;) Ignoring that isn't an option, unfortunately, believe me, that's been tried.

>yeah but so what Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. >Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off. Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software...

[deleted]

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#193

Post by FredPret »

Latty wrote: post #110
grishka wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Russian, you already notice this and you already have many things in your everyday life disrupted. Someone deleting your files as an act of shoving politics where it doesn't belong helps absolutely nothing. If anything, it's not an act of protest, it's an act of vandalism. Causes don't matter here — vandalism is simply never okay.

Vandalism can be a form of protest. Again, every protest ever has had people saying that the disruption to them is over the line. It draws attention and coverage to the issue. It forces people to listen. Protest has to be disruptive to the norm to achieve that, and there will always be people who don't like that. That's the point. As I say, I don't think this one is effective or proportional given the lack of control…

“Crime X can be a form of protest”

“Every protest ever has had people saying that the disruption to them is over the line”

So which crimes would not be acceptable in a protest? And if people will always complain about the line being crossed, does this mean there can be no line at all?

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#194

Post by grnmamba »

jddil wrote: post #127
commandlinefan wrote: post #5

I'm in Texas. A LOT of Californians disagree with some of the laws that Texas has passed. How long will it be until my hard drive gets reformatted by some protestor in San Francisco who localizes my IP address?

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm sure your state/country has not a single unjust law on the books.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#195

Post by slackfan »

slackfan wrote: post #180
slackfan wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a wonderful thing to able be do, if the woke brigade wasn't screaming "YOU'RE WITH US OR YOU'RE AGAINST US" a parent over. ;) Ignoring that isn't an option, unfortunately, believe me, that's been tried.

>yeah but so what Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. >Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off. Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software...

>materially it is not a threat to you

Kind of crappy whataboutism there don't you think? What if I'm a VPN user and my hard drive was wiped?

>Conservatives

What does this have to do with conservatives?

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#196

Post by staticelf »

KyeRussell wrote: post #178
staticelf wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically all big js front ends have the same issue. Most of them had banners or whole pages for the BLM movement which made no sense to anyone outside of the US like myself. I mean a framework or library with a global audience shouldn't push american politics. Vue, React, Preact, Nodejs, Ember (had a whole page and made documentation unavailable for some time), Go lang, ExpressJS (still has the banner up), Typescrip…

Again, you’re calling this “political” because it doesn’t matter to you, and it certainly sounds like it doesn’t personally affect you. To other people, BLM is a serous existential threat. You’d lose your mind if someone chalked the question of your existence up to “politics”. You’re really showing your hand. And no, I’m not American either, but that doesn’t somehow make me blind to the fact that BLM is a big deal.

So why doesn't the same sites have banners for Ukrainian lives? Russias invasion is for sure a bigger existential threat to them since they got invaded by a foreign state.

I think you're showing your hand, I am arguing for treating everyone the same and that the people in charge of these sites appears to care more about American lives than Ukrainian ones.

If you're gonna have banners, then having them for ukraine is an obvious choice for me. OR.. maybe you could decide not to involve politics into tech with a global audience at all and skip all this bullshit.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#197

Post by seqizz »

But on the other hand, these people are not promising anything, do they? Check the MIT/BSD/GPL etc, all of them explicitly state that the software does _not_ come with any kind of guarantee.

Harsh reality is: It's user's responsibility to test for those. Noone is forcing you to use this piece of code which is given as-is without any guarantees. Noone is forcing you to update. It might be a dependency, but still it's not the problem of the code owner.

Or am I missing something?

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#198

Post by matsemann »

commandlinefan wrote: post #5

I'm in Texas. A LOT of Californians disagree with some of the laws that Texas has passed. How long will it be until my hard drive gets reformatted by some protestor in San Francisco who localizes my IP address?

Is those laws that you should airstrike California? If not, why are you downplaying the significance of what's happening in Ukraine? Context matters in how proportional a response can be.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#199

Post by beaconstudios »

slackfan wrote: post #195
slackfan wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>yeah but so what Being silent about shitty behavior is the same as condoning it, don't you know? Just because you don't like the playbook doesn't mean it doesn't work. >Anybody who legitimately makes a "liberals only" stand in their license will get forked and their usage will drop off. Considering that the developer just pulled a "no russians" stand with their software...

>materially it is not a threat to you Kind of crappy whataboutism there don't you think? What if I'm a VPN user and my hard drive was wiped? >Conservatives What does this have to do with conservatives?

> Kind of crappy whataboutism there don't you think? What if I'm a VPN user and my hard drive was wiped?

Yeah it obviously sucks to be a victim of this behaviour, but the developer is being roundly condemned by everybody. I thought you were worried about this type of behaviour being encouraged by progressives?

> What does this have to do with conservatives?

Just a guess, it's usually conservatives that hand-wring this much about "woke" people.

Re: Open source ‘protestware’ harms Open Source

#200

Post by baud147258 »

Larrikin wrote: post #15
seanw444 wrote: post #4

I just don't understand what the node-ipc dev was expecting when he did that. "Hm, maybe if I put malware into a community-trusted module that destroys files of people in a certain geopolitical region, the countless innocent citizens that are affected will realize what they did wrong! Wait, who am I actually targeting again?"

Probably hoped the effects would negatively effect people there so they could put pressure to stop the murder of other innocent civilians. Arguments like this are similar to the BLM protest that try to equate property with human lives.

> they could put pressure to stop

In case you haven't checked, both targeted countries are authoritarian regimes where any kind of civil protest is ignored at best or actively suppressed at worst. And violent regime changes (aka revolutions) coming from the people don't work, at least not without the support of part of the governing elites (which aren't impacted by that kind of actions)

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