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Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

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Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#191

Post by NegativeLatency »

nielsole wrote: post #189
Denatonium wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most modern wireless cards will do a scan for wireless networks on startup and set their regulatory domain to the one regulatory domain contained in the majority of beacons from surrounding wireless APs. This can't (easily) be overridden and prevents people from setting the wrong country and causing interference, while still allowing a single WLAN card to work globally. Intel calls this "Location Aware Regulatory".

> This can't (easily) be overridden Isn't it a simple drop-down in openwrt?

Raspberry pies ask you for the country

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#192

Post by Operyl »

nielsole wrote: post #189
Denatonium wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most modern wireless cards will do a scan for wireless networks on startup and set their regulatory domain to the one regulatory domain contained in the majority of beacons from surrounding wireless APs. This can't (easily) be overridden and prevents people from setting the wrong country and causing interference, while still allowing a single WLAN card to work globally. Intel calls this "Location Aware Regulatory".

> This can't (easily) be overridden Isn't it a simple drop-down in openwrt?

Not all radios support this in openwrt.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#193

Post by detaro »

nielsole wrote: post #189
Denatonium wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most modern wireless cards will do a scan for wireless networks on startup and set their regulatory domain to the one regulatory domain contained in the majority of beacons from surrounding wireless APs. This can't (easily) be overridden and prevents people from setting the wrong country and causing interference, while still allowing a single WLAN card to work globally. Intel calls this "Location Aware Regulatory".

> This can't (easily) be overridden Isn't it a simple drop-down in openwrt?

There being a dropdown doesn't tell you if the radio actually does anything with it.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#194

Post by genewitch »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #123
3np wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THANK YOU for that link, I didn’t realize that our self-hosted DHCP was facing attacks not only from the shitty ISP cable modem but also from the TP-Link APs. Hopefully an upgrade will fix that. It really says something about their attitude: > And there seemed to be some misleading about "smart DHCP". This feature would not be enabled for no reason. It took >2y and >100 forum posts on the issue before they even ackno…

I see. So that's why our network broke when the power failed. My Linux router is slow to boot, and the tp-link's in AP mode ran out of patience.

Tenda devices do this as well, and some other thing I have, maybe a gl.inet. if my main connection dies for more than 15 minutes, it's anyone's guess which device will win the race to break dhcp.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#195

Post by mastazi »

occoder wrote: post #186
mastazi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! I have had a look at both article! My situation is similar to yours as I'm thinking that perhaps I will not have WiFi on it. Also based on the first of the two articles, it seems that wireless cards for PC are not that great when you use them as access points. (I wonder if the situation has changed at all since 2016 though).

WiFi cards for PC will probably always make crappy access points, not least because the antenna they come with can't compete with those on consumer WiFi routers. They could totally work if you only need to cover something like a small apartment and don't need top speed. But separate WiFi access point is probably the way to go, I'd made sure to get ones that could run OpenWRT.

> I'd made sure to get ones that could run OpenWRT.

Very good point!

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#196

Post by genewitch »

3np wrote: post #39

A bit of a tangent, but I recently discovered GL.iNet[0] and ordered a couple of routers and hotspots. HK vendor for network devices running forked OpenWRT with a bunch of extras and customization. I haven't had the time to dive deep enough into all of the code yet, but so far I'm very optimistic. Not perfect; some of the more interesting functionality (like site-to-site VPN) is tied to a proprietary closed SaaS with…

If anyone remembers seeing an article about using a gl.inet mango as a way to mitm cellphone apps on your own network, I'd like to request a link. I read it, and bought a couple mangos a couple months later, and now, a couple years later I cannot find the page anymore.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#197

Post by josteink »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #73
louloulou wrote: post #10

Not sure what they mean by "build my own router", it's easy enough to flash open firmware on a lot of tp-link models. https://download1.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/downloads/betas/2021/1...

Build a Debian $latest firewall on an x86 box with two NICs (one upstream, one downstream/intranet). You don't need much CPU power for a router. To downstream, connect a good switch with port mirroring. (You might want to be able to capture traffic.) Connect a wireless router as an access point or do double-NAT. Let the AP be a dispensable component, not the main component of your network.

> Let the AP be a dispensable component, not the main component of your network.

Yes. Agreed. Let routing and WiFi be 2 separate concerns handled by 2 different devices (or in the case of mesh-networking, classes of devices).

> You don't need much CPU power for a router.

Depends on how fast your link is. I could get decent routing on a mid-range MIPS-based device until I needed more than 300mbps. The CPU peaked and throttled traffic, because it was responsible for the NATing (ie actual routing, not just passing ethernet frames or TCP packets around untouched)

After that I needed a router with support for hardware NAT-offloading and it can do 1gbps actual routing just fine.

You probably don’t need to go full X86 + Debian, but depending on your needs, you may still find yourself bandwidth-limited because of CPU constraints.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#198

Post by alias_neo »

mhitza wrote: post #12

This type of whackery is (the primary reason) why I try to buy computing devices on which I can flash a clean OS (OpenWrt/DD-WRT for routers)[1]. It sucks because it limits my choices down to a few, but at the same time I feel like I don't throw out money at abandonware. [1] don't even get me started on TP-Link releasing routers with the same name but v2/v3/2020/2021 update where it's hard to even know if I'm buying…

If you can afford it, go one better.

I started out buying expensive home Wi-Fi routers, and I now have a box of expensive home routers I've decommissioned because they have vulnerabilities and stopped receiving updates. Probably well over ~£1000-2000 spent on them over the past ~decade.

Next I switched to separate Router/Switch/AP and started with a Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 8 POE, EdgeRouter Lite 3 and an AP-AC-Pro. Later I added a EdgeSwitch 24.

Recently my EdgeRouter kicked the bucket, and wanting to be entirely free from manufacturer updates so I bought a Protectli box, flashed it with Coreboot (instead of AMIBIOS) and installed pfSense. I still use the AP-AC-Pro for now but will look for more open WiFi AP options once that dies or I move from my London apartment to a bigger home.

I say "if you can afford it" because the Protectli box came in at just over £500 once RAM and SSD were added (I got the i3 model), the AP-AC-Pro is ~£120 (IIRC) and the EdgeSwitch another ~£150. This isn't "reasonably" priced equipment for home use, nor would I recommend Ubiquiti of late, but it's working well for me at the moment.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#199

Post by leokennis »

m45t3r wrote: post #94

Not trying to defend TP-Link or anything, but I recently bought a pair of mesh router from them and they work very well. BTW, this hidden network probably uses another protocol (for the OneMesh). It is the 802.11s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s ), that uses its own encryption method based on Simultaneous Authentication of Equals (SAE) (yeah, that is the same as WPA3, however it came before it). It shows…

So these "hidden networks" are basically the backhaul for when you set up the AP as part of a mesh?

Question: do WiFi networks always send (and thereby interfere with networks in use), even if there is no traffic?

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#200

Post by rhn_mk1 »

leokennis wrote: post #199
m45t3r wrote: post #94

Not trying to defend TP-Link or anything, but I recently bought a pair of mesh router from them and they work very well. BTW, this hidden network probably uses another protocol (for the OneMesh). It is the 802.11s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s ), that uses its own encryption method based on Simultaneous Authentication of Equals (SAE) (yeah, that is the same as WPA3, however it came before it). It shows…

So these "hidden networks" are basically the backhaul for when you set up the AP as part of a mesh? Question: do WiFi networks always send (and thereby interfere with networks in use), even if there is no traffic?

They send network advertisement packets even when no traffic is going.
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