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Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

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Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#111

Post by globular-toast »

I was running a TP-link access point (not router) and was surprised to notice the "hidden" networks. I thought I was misinterpreting the readings at first, but the installed that beta firmware and it allowed me to disable them. This improved connectivity with some devices. I shortly after switched to a Ubiquiti access point which has been a lot better.

I think it's really important for people to know the difference between routers, switches, access points and modems. I've noticed that even geeks these days seem to have forgotten or maybe never knew. This has nothing to do with routers whatsoever. You can pick and choose the best from each category. No need to go "all in" on one device and accept tons of compromises.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#112

Post by latchkey »

chronogram wrote: post #28

Last week I bought a TP-Link AX55 and went through the settings and enabled all the neat things and disabled all the regular consumer ease of access things (WPS, meshing things), and the only hidden networks in my area with the same app are several decibel away with a different MAC address. Either it’s not around in the newer models or it’s part of one of the regular consumer ease of access things.

I just got the AX55 as well. Fast modern router for the price. Pretty happy with the purchase, despite the lack of openness.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#113

Post by xanaxagoras »

clajiness wrote: post #72

Hard to beat OPNsense on Protectli machines with your favorite flavor of networking hardware (Unifi, Microtik, etc).

I did this during COVID and it took a lot of time and learning, but now I feel like the God of my network and I can do cool stuff that wasn't possible on my old gear. I've read that Protecli boxes are re-branded Qotom machines and I'm sure you can get the same setup for a few hundred less but I'm glad I went with them for the support and coreboot OOTB.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#114

Post by rootusrootus »

chana_masala wrote: post #75

Any recommendations for an ethernet only router? I do know I could use the Pi to do that, but it seems like a waste.

Depends on what you want from it. I've other things I hack on so I don't really have the time to hack together my own router, so I use a Ubiquiti USG. Before that I had an EdgeRouter Lite (more or less identical) for years.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#115

Post by azinman2 »

rhizome wrote: post #83
azinman2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given their inexpensive pricing, as long as they only do that in their admin interface and don’t mess with my packets, it’s not worth throwing the baby out with the bath water in my book… especially since there are no real competitors offering good hardware with nice UI.

Does Ubiquity use a standard ad network architecture that allows code from unknown third parties to run within your network?

It’s Ubiquiti advertising their own products.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#116

Post by rootusrootus »

willis936 wrote: post #26
formerly_proven wrote: post #6

So after the Ubiquiti debacle I went out and looked for a similar combination (solid hardware + not-too-annoying software). After briefly considering Mikrotik (which has issues with ac (wifi 5) and no ax (wifi 6) support) I settled on Grandstream for now. They don't just make phones but a small set of fairly nicely featured wifi APs for ok prices. Hardware seems solid, Software not annoying. I've bought a few pieces…

Ubiquiti's Unifi line seems riddled with issues. Why would I want an account or the internet involved in any part of my network control? However, I am quite happy with the Edgerouter series. I just wish it got more updates. The last update to EdgeOS is 6 months old. I don't like my security gateway not being patched with weekly security updates.

I don't have any cloud account to run my home network, I just have a VM running the Unifi software locally. I'm quite happy with the setup. USG to route packets, PoE switch with three AC-Pro access points hanging off it.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#117

Post by r1ch »

For those curious about the "Wi-Fi spam" comment: even though nothing is connected to the network and it's a hidden SSID, it still has to broadcast beacons every 100ms. The 802.11 standard says beacons must be sent at the lowest rate the AP supports, so your ~350 byte beacon at 1mbps (2.4 GHz) uses around 5% of the frequency. It doesn't take many SSIDs on the same 2.4 GHz channel to make the throughput fall through the floor. Beacon spam is one of the reasons why 2.4 GHz is practically unusable in dense environments these days.

Thankfully for 5 GHz this isn't as bad since the lowest rate is 6mbps and the signal penetrates less. Some routers have the option to disable 802.11b which raises the minimum 2.4 GHz beacon to 6mbps as well, but unless everyone does this it won't make much difference.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#118

Post by 3np »

fomine3 wrote: post #82
lordnacho wrote: post #32

I had a related problem with their PowerLine TPA-4220 devices yesterday. It turns out there's a DHCP server on it that you can't turn off! It's supposed to be smart and know when there's another DHCP server on the network, but it appears that this sometimes doesn't work. So I found that my laptop sometimes ends up configured on the wrong subnet, which of course kills the internet connection. The thing is, the web int…

This feature is stupid. I never buy TP-link products because I can't believe people who ship like this. ref: https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/160293

THANK YOU for that link, I didn’t realize that our self-hosted DHCP was facing attacks not only from the shitty ISP cable modem but also from the TP-Link APs. Hopefully an upgrade will fix that. It really says something about their attitude:

> And there seemed to be some misleading about "smart DHCP". This feature would not be enabled for no reason.

It took >2y and >100 forum posts on the issue before they even acknowledged that even in “AP mode” it silently enables a DHCP server as long as it doesn’t get a DHCP reply within 60s from boot.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#119

Post by reaperducer »

ceejayoz wrote: post #36
lordnacho wrote: post #32

I had a related problem with their PowerLine TPA-4220 devices yesterday. It turns out there's a DHCP server on it that you can't turn off! It's supposed to be smart and know when there's another DHCP server on the network, but it appears that this sometimes doesn't work. So I found that my laptop sometimes ends up configured on the wrong subnet, which of course kills the internet connection. The thing is, the web int…

I had a similar experience with my Netgear Orbi; they have a dual 2.4/5 GHz network on the same SSID, but certain devices just cannot handle it (including apparently Facebook's Oculus and quite a few smart home devices). Turns out you can split them up into separate SSIDs, but only by telnetting into your base station and each satellite and running some cryptic commands on each. It used to be possible via the web UI,…

they have a dual 2.4/5 GHz network on the same SSID, but certain devices just cannot handle it

My Canon wireless printer is one of those devices that can't handle it. If they both have different SSIDs, then it will connect fine. But if there are two with the same SSID, during setup if fails to ask the user for a password and therefore cannot connect.

Meanwhile, Amazon's eero has removed the option to have different SSIDs for each network. The two mistakes combined (Canon's and eero's) mean it's not possible to use the Canon on an eero network. Unless...

What I ended up doing was unplugging the eero, and setting up an Airport Express I used to use for traveling with the SSID I want for the eero. Hook the Canon up through the Airport. Unplug the Airport and turn the eero back on and it connects. A stupid workaround.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#120

Post by mpalczewski »

lordnacho wrote: post #32

I had a related problem with their PowerLine TPA-4220 devices yesterday. It turns out there's a DHCP server on it that you can't turn off! It's supposed to be smart and know when there's another DHCP server on the network, but it appears that this sometimes doesn't work. So I found that my laptop sometimes ends up configured on the wrong subnet, which of course kills the internet connection. The thing is, the web int…

They do what I kept on doing with these devices, unplug them and then plug them back in again.
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