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Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

dev.epicgames.com

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Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#191

Post by emsy »

eertami wrote: post #152
temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

>I wholeheartedly believe I could have played top 500 region online matches and gotten away with it Unless you were already near the top, climbing rapidly up rankings (in a 3rd party ladder) is going to be very suspicious. Draw enough attention and I think it's not unlikely someone would find evidence (not evidence of how your system works, but video proof that shows cheating). And if the humanization is so good that…

>Unless you were already near the top, climbing rapidly up rankings (in a 3rd party ladder) is going to be very suspicious.

smurfs are as old as competitive games, so I doubt it.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#192

Post by tester756 »

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #189
tester756 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the real mouse's commands. doesn't "line" made of mouse coordinates look oddly for human?

Absolutely, it's a bezier curve with some random noise, I oversimplified.

> random noise

I thought about randomness, but cannot randomness be detected?

e.g you add +- 5 pixels horizontally/vertically

so with 30min game sample cannot it be detected? e.g when collecting only when enemy is on screen

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#193

Post by zamadatix »

switz wrote: post #85
donkarma wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about VAC, which is not even close to the same tier as EAC, there are no "open source cheats" that bypass the major anticheat services because they are quickly identified and patched.

Correct, VAC is very different than EAC. But it's absolutely not true that there are not open source cheats that bypass EAC, FaceIT, and ESEA. The more popular ones get patched, but I've seen a bunch of smaller ones that do not get detected – you just have to know how to find them. They may eventually get detected, but cheaters generally will just create a new account and start cheating again. When my platform launch…

> They may eventually get detected, but cheaters generally will just create a new account and start cheating again.

Typically games will either avoid putting low play count players in the pool with established or paying players. Both because they don't want the guy playing for the first time to be constantly creamed by heavily invested players which would drive them off but also because real time and real dollars are strong deterrent to most and at least an extreme slowdown to the remaining. The net result of anti-cheat is to make it unviable to continually cheat, not to never have hacks that temporarily work.

CS's problem is Valve has shit anti-cheat that doesn't really care to detect cheaters and even when it does it doesn't have strong new player segmentation to delay them from coming back. Both of these are reason's Valve is lax with cheaters not reason's anti-cheats aren't effective.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#194

Post by Datenstrom »

zdw wrote: post #10

What permissions does this require? A kernel module? Something that watches all processes all the time? Messes with input settings or breaks assistive devices? On windows, a lot of the actions that "anti-cheat" software takes is indistinguishable from a rootkit.

This is why I still use the console model with my gaming PC. It is exclusively for games without exception. I would have it boot directly into steam if I could get steam to boot other games like from Battle Net without so much work.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#195

Post by PoignardAzur »

tester756 wrote: post #183
temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

>Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the real mouse's commands. doesn't "line" made of mouse coordinates look oddly for human?

At this point, I'm pretty sure any "human" pattern machines can find, other machines can fake. Simulating how a human would move a cursor towards a position definitely seems like something deep learning could approximate for cheap.

Naive aimbots will still have some artifacts (eg jumping to a new target as soon as the current one is occluded), but making an undetectable aimbot really doesn't seem hard, given the incentives involved.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#196

Post by jasonladuke0311 »

pstrateman wrote: post #41
ketralnis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh great, so you've solved the problem then. The entire industry just hasn't discovered your one simple trick. You should let them know.

Yeah except he's right, the vast majority of cheaters can be detected server side. Literally no game does this, because ?????

Because they can get people to install rootkits on their PCs and offload the computational burden on to them instead of paying $$$ to detect these themselves?

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#197

Post by rodgerd »

pstrateman wrote: post #41
ketralnis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh great, so you've solved the problem then. The entire industry just hasn't discovered your one simple trick. You should let them know.

Yeah except he's right, the vast majority of cheaters can be detected server side. Literally no game does this, because ?????

In one part because the false positives of picking up top players as bots becomes an issue.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#198

Post by yesbut »

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #107
yesbut wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China-owned State owned is problematic, I'm not in disagreement with you. But so is corporate owned. I'd like to see an industry standard anti-cheat root-kit developed as a publicly reviewable open source project at the very least.

>I'd like to see an industry standard anti-cheat root-kit developed as a publicly reviewable open source project at the very least An anti-cheat is one of the few areas that truly would ruin its security by going OSS. A cheater can quickly enumerate every method the AC uses to detect cheats, then they know EXACTLY which goalpost to kick into, per-se. 85% of Vanguard's effectiveness is their CONFUSING ban protocols, w…

Then handle it server side. Anything you ask the user to install into their kernel should not be closed source.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#199

Post by rodgerd »

Datenstrom wrote: post #194
zdw wrote: post #10

What permissions does this require? A kernel module? Something that watches all processes all the time? Messes with input settings or breaks assistive devices? On windows, a lot of the actions that "anti-cheat" software takes is indistinguishable from a rootkit.

This is why I still use the console model with my gaming PC. It is exclusively for games without exception. I would have it boot directly into steam if I could get steam to boot other games like from Battle Net without so much work.

> This is why I still use the console model with my gaming PC.

I mean this is why I use a console as my first choice gaming platform.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#200

Post by vetinari »

Datenstrom wrote: post #194
zdw wrote: post #10

What permissions does this require? A kernel module? Something that watches all processes all the time? Messes with input settings or breaks assistive devices? On windows, a lot of the actions that "anti-cheat" software takes is indistinguishable from a rootkit.

This is why I still use the console model with my gaming PC. It is exclusively for games without exception. I would have it boot directly into steam if I could get steam to boot other games like from Battle Net without so much work.

You can, actually. Steam can add non-steam games to the library, and also can stream them over Steam link. I've used that to play GoG games on Android TV.
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