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Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

dev.epicgames.com

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Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#181

Post by nawgz »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #117
temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

To be honest I have completely given up on competitive fps games. The cheating situation has only gotten worse and I really don't see anti-cheat makers winning.

As a former CSGO player who would've said this previously... Valorant is impressively legit

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#182

Post by mrmuagi »

pstrateman wrote: post #41
ketralnis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh great, so you've solved the problem then. The entire industry just hasn't discovered your one simple trick. You should let them know.

Yeah except he's right, the vast majority of cheaters can be detected server side. Literally no game does this, because ?????

I am guessing extra computation? Maybe this sort of technology is in infancy?

The real interesting take away is it is always a mouse and cat game. The hackers will adapt, instead of reading memory they might just read packets, or use a m.2 memory reader card, because they have to -- and so will the anti-hackers. I am interesting in machine learning to simulate COD -- I saw a video of it and it's like a young child was playing the game -- not good but obviously on the path to competence.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#183

Post by tester756 »

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64
AustinDev wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those aren't even cheaters using a full DMA module and separate PC which is nearly impossible to detect if done properly.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

>Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the real mouse's commands.

doesn't "line" made of mouse coordinates look oddly for human?

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#184

Post by shadilay »

nitrogen wrote: post #168
Pxtl wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the cases where end-to-end vendor control over the hardware from the player's fingers to the HDMI out exists, yes that seems possible. But on a PC? Where the user can install whatever software they like? Much harder. It feels like stopping aimbots will ultimately fail as eventually we'll see bots that use machine-vision to spot heads and pick them off. You wouldn't even need to run it on the cheating machine, this…

Someone else mentioned doing this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28634631 Even if they turn on HDCP, you could just get a low-lag monitor and point a camera at it.

You can just buy an HDCP stripper. https://www.amazon.com/Easyday-Stripper-Splitter-Signal-Ampl...

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#185

Post by m4rtink »

reanimus wrote: post #38
zdw wrote: post #10

What permissions does this require? A kernel module? Something that watches all processes all the time? Messes with input settings or breaks assistive devices? On windows, a lot of the actions that "anti-cheat" software takes is indistinguishable from a rootkit.

I wouldn't be shocked if it used BPF probes or something like that. A kernel module is possible, too, especially if they're targeting Ubuntu with DKMS.

Good luck getting custom kernel modules working with secure boot.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#186

Post by Razengan »

zdw wrote: post #10

What permissions does this require? A kernel module? Something that watches all processes all the time? Messes with input settings or breaks assistive devices? On windows, a lot of the actions that "anti-cheat" software takes is indistinguishable from a rootkit.

“Think of the cheaters!” is the gaming equivalent of “Think of the children!”

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#187

Post by Razengan »

judge2020 wrote: post #18
zdw wrote: post #10

What permissions does this require? A kernel module? Something that watches all processes all the time? Messes with input settings or breaks assistive devices? On windows, a lot of the actions that "anti-cheat" software takes is indistinguishable from a rootkit.

Arguably necessary when cheats people install themselves are actual rootkits.

> cheats people install themselves are actual rootkits. reply

Examples?

That’s like the “Apple shouldn’t allow third-party stores because of malware” argument.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#188

Post by nitrogen »

tester756 wrote: post #177
schmorptron wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-Cheat is the only industry where security by obscurity is valid.

Obscurity is always valid because it increases security, doesn't it?

They're referring to this idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

Obscurity can be a layer, but it can't be the only layer, and in general systems (such as web servers) need to be designed to withstand full-knowledge attacks. That isn't likely to be possible when it comes to anti-cheat, so obscurity plays a larger role.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#189

Post by temporarrry0923 »

tester756 wrote: post #183
temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

>Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the real mouse's commands. doesn't "line" made of mouse coordinates look oddly for human?

Absolutely, it's a bezier curve with some random noise, I oversimplified.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#190

Post by tlackemann »

francislavoie wrote: post #23
tlackemann wrote: post #3

I literally just posted a comment in an earlier thread that the only reason I dual boot Windows is for EAC support. This is awesome news. We can finally play Fallout Guys on linux!

"Fallout Guys" haha, I think you meant Fall Guys.

I was so quick to reply, yes Fall Guys. Thank you kindly
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