Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#191

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #155

hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

> They are running out of hospital beds I find that hard to believe, considering that these states didn't run out of hospital beds in any of the previous waves that also had higher incidence and far higher mortality. I quote: > "Another nine states have less than 20% of their ICU beds available." This is still on the high end, by international standards. Optimal occupancy rate is estimated at 70-75%: https://pubmed.n…

[deleted]

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#192

Post by Izkata » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #165

Izkata wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at the states with the highest amount of unvaccinated individuals in the US. They are running out of hospital beds [1]. This is not about taking our freedoms, this is about getting this under control. > [1] https://fortune.com/2021/08/25/states-icu-beds-covid-cases-d ... I can't see the article due to paywall, but based on how you're presenting I have to say: Due to the phrasing it isn't a straight lie, but it…

From the article: As of Tuesday Aug. 24, six states—Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas—had less than 10% of ICU beds available according to data from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. I'm happy to hear Idaho is fine. It doesn't sound like these other states are.

Alabama: https://data.commercialappeal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity... - Scrolling through these, it still looks like only 20-30% are covid.

Arkansas: https://data.commercialappeal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity... - Mostly not being overrun, and again covid is only like 20-30%.

Florida: https://data.commercialappeal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity... - Similar to Alabama, and like Alabama, mostly not covid.

Georgia: https://data.commercialappeal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity... - Only a handful are out of beds, with the covid patients looking like an even smaller proportion, around 15-20% in most of them.

Mississippi - https://data.commercialappeal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity... - Only the smallest hospitals are out of beds, with covid again looking like the 20-30% range for most of them.

Texas - https://data.commercialappeal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity... - About half of them are on the high end; Texas looks like it's in much better shape than the other five states. Again covid cases are on the low end, 15-20%.

If there's something overrunning these hospitals, it's still most likely deferred treatments from last year. (Edit: And as the comment sibling to yours points out, they're currently doing elective surgeries that can probably be postponed to open up more capacity if really needed)

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#193

Post by yodsanklai » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

NalNezumi wrote: post #123

hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…

1. even in your 20s, there's still risk to be sick in an unpleasant way 2. we've been using vaccines forever. I've been vaccinated maybe 10 times in my life. Why suddenly should I worry. RNA vaccines may be newer, but 100s of millions of people have been vaccinated, and side effects happen usually soon after the injection. You can also use the AZ vaccine which is more conventional. 3. you prevent other people from getting sick. Even though the vaccine doesn't totally prevent spreading the disease, it does to some extent. 4. Consensus about doctors is that ratio benefit/risk is favorable toward the vaccine for all age classes. I trust my family doctor with my health and follow his recommendation.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#194

Post by bsaul » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #184

bsaul wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is pretty interesting, because i've had the intimate suspicion that the debate around public health measure to fight covid have been rendered impossible because of the trump / biden US election. The Dem vs Rep political fight seems to be ruining every single scientific debate it gets a hold on. FYI: i'm french, so i have absolutely no interest in that Dem vs Rep debate, and people here i know that are th…

Forgive me for pattern-matching your political leanings; it's insufferable to deal with a dozen variants of "it's just a flu" mutated from the dear leader's mouth over here. You're right, real dialog on scientific matters is getting impossible, because people can't do basic research. If you'd like to read up on mRNA vaccines, here's an article from the pre-COVID days, before something as simple as a scientific advanc…

I would be very careful to label an opinion as being ignorant, and then assert things like "people… know vaccination is the only way [to get rid of the pandemic]".

The scientific community seems to be very divided on whether "getting rid of covid" is even a goal at this point (at least based on what i read on what virologist and epidemiologist say).

I feel you (like many others) have failed to put their instinctive repulsion for the archetypal anti-vaxer aside and objectively evaluate the pros and cons of every strategy.

EDIT: thanks for the paper, but already the title itself says it all and seem to comfort my position: "a new era in vaccinology". We all know what happens with 1.0 versions of a brand new tech, right ? I'll still take the time to read it entirely since you've taken the time to send it to me.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#195

Post by divbzero » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

NalNezumi wrote: post #162

hackingforfun wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the chance of me getting hospitalized is so low to begin with I just don't think this is true. Again, look at the states in the US with the lowest levels of vaccination. They are running out of ICU beds due to the amount of cases. I'm not sure where you're located. Maybe there's a low amount of cases there, but in general, the risk of being hospitalized (and maybe not having a bed to go to) is rather high. The d…

Thank you for the rapid and informative reply. I appreciate it (esp when the topic is a bit politicized right now) I'm not from US so I haven't checked the stats closely for those states. My current city of residence is Tokyo. Afaik right now hospitalization seems quite bad, and there's no strict lockdown. I'm trying to work from home and dodge rush hours as much as possible to reduce the risk for now. Do you have an…

Indiana currently has about 44% of overall population vaccinated (3.0M out of 6.8M).

Since January the state has recorded the following numbers of COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths: [1]

    Unvaccinated  Vaccinated
  C      278,508       6,740
  H       16,322         226
  D        5,709          78

(The article did not provide a full breakdown by age, but did note that Indiana’s vaccinated population skews older and would have higher baseline risk for complications.)

[1]: https://www.kpcnews.com/covid-19/article_f0e9bff4-a968-56b3-...

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#196

Post by mrtesthah » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

NalNezumi wrote: post #162

hackingforfun wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the chance of me getting hospitalized is so low to begin with I just don't think this is true. Again, look at the states in the US with the lowest levels of vaccination. They are running out of ICU beds due to the amount of cases. I'm not sure where you're located. Maybe there's a low amount of cases there, but in general, the risk of being hospitalized (and maybe not having a bed to go to) is rather high. The d…

Thank you for the rapid and informative reply. I appreciate it (esp when the topic is a bit politicized right now) I'm not from US so I haven't checked the stats closely for those states. My current city of residence is Tokyo. Afaik right now hospitalization seems quite bad, and there's no strict lockdown. I'm trying to work from home and dodge rush hours as much as possible to reduce the risk for now. Do you have an…

>But last I heard the vaccine is not that effective to Delta variant.

That's not exactly the case. Neutralizing antibodies created from the vaccines work about as well against delta as they did against alpha. The main differences are that delta:

  * Spreads more efficiently
  * Has a shorter incubation period
  * Produces a higher viral load in those infected

The incubation period being shorter means your T-cells have less time to ramp up in the case of naturally-waning antibody levels (which applies to people who were vaccinated at the beginning of the year), giving the infection more time to set in (remember, viruses grow exponentially). The higher viral load likewise means that the circulating antibody levels that were adequate for alpha may not be sufficient for delta. So we may see that people vaccinated with Moderna now have a better response against delta due to it creating twice as many antibodies.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2783797

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#197

Post by dfawcus » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #182

dfawcus wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus." and with the AZ vaccine, due to the vector chosen, supposedly it (spike protein) does enter the nucleus. Oops. (note I'm not suggesting the AZ vaccine causes any alteration of our DNA)

Just to clarify I was talking about the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines. AstraZeneca’s vaccine uses adenovirus-vectored technology, which is different [1]. [1] https://www.prevention.com/health/a35118263/astrazeneca-vs-p...

I was aware of that.

From what I read, the mRNA vaccines manages to get the spike in to the cytoplasm, just like the real virus, so it to that extent mimics what is desired.

Whereas the viral vector (a different delivery technology) used for the AZ vaccine manages to get the spike in to the nucleus, due to picking the "wrong" vector, so to that extents it could be said not to mimic what is desired.

There was speculation that if it had used a different vector which delivered to the cytoplasm, then some of the low probability issues may have been avoided. So one could argue that the choice of vector was/is a bug with the AZ vaccine. Despite that, it does seem to be having the desired effect - reduced hospitalisations.

Mind, I've had the AZ vaccine, and so far have survived.

:-)

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#198

Post by inglor_cz » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #112

tinus_hn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are contradicting yourself. You say this is about getting things under control, but then you say there is no way of controlling things. Because vaccinated people can still spread infections vaccinations, just like lockdowns, do not help ‘getting things under control’. They only delay progression of the pandemic. You say ‘it will probably be a common cold, once humans have enough antibodies’. Humans do not get per…

> Humans do not get permanent antibodies from the vaccines. They get antibodies from getting infected. Weird, I've yet to get chicken pox/shingles, mumps, polio etc despite being vaccinated against them as a child. And I still catch the flu regularly despite having already had it.

Not the OP, but antibodies are just one part of a fairly complex immune system and it does not make too much sense to concentrate just on them. Antibodies are proteins and their level goes down over time naturally. What really interests you is the level of immune response on subsequent exposure to the pathogen, which may be pretty robust even if antibodies are low or undetectable at the moment of new exposure.

We obviously do not know yet whether we can get permanently robust immune response to SARS-CoV-2, either from vaccines or from natural infection; the virus is only two years old. We know that we can get permanently robust immune response to the viruses you mentioned in your post. But this cannot be easily generalized to any new virus that comes along.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#199

Post by impendia » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #153

hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

> Look at the states with the highest amount of unvaccinated individuals in the US. They are running out of hospital beds [1]. This is not about taking our freedoms, this is about getting this under control. > [1] https://fortune.com/2021/08/25/states-icu-beds-covid-cases-d ... I can't see the article due to paywall, but based on how you're presenting I have to say: Due to the phrasing it isn't a straight lie, but it…

I live in South Carolina, where the pandemic is especially bad now, and where vaccine uptake has been low. A friend told me that ambulances were being turned away at the front door of a local hospital.

It is true that there are many possible factors for this, that planning at that hospital might have been questionable and/or very profit-oriented. Also, I've read that a lot of medical staff have gotten fed up with the situation, and in some cases quit their jobs.

But matter the underlying causes, it's a scary picture.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#200

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

op00to wrote: post #152

whatshisface wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people get a flu shot every year so on the level of abstraction of "a vaccine" it's not that big of a problem. These vaccines are slightly more side effecty than the average flu shot (flu shots don't usually make you feel as bad for the day or two after the shot) so who knows.

I've never felt weird after a flu shot other than slight pain in my arm. Each shot of moderna knocked me the f out in horrible ways. My pfizerwife was fine.

There's also variation from person to person and season to season in flu vaccine side effects, but the covid vaccine seems to be giving the two-day knockout a little more often. Maybe in 2025 we'll start getting specific figures. There does not seem to be a lot of desire to carefully quantify non life-threatening side effects, which is kind of understandable given the limited resources of regulatory agencies and the incentives of pharmaceuticals, but I would like to live in a scientific world where that kind of data was always collected, if for no other reason than that it would remove the element of trusting the system to act reasonably from medical decisionmaking.