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Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

economist.com

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Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#191

Post by toast0 »

ecf wrote: post #96
LordDragonfang wrote: post #54

>One City Hall insider suggests that San Francisco overreacts to issues that are in the national news, and designs solutions to the country’s problems rather than its own. For example, when Mr Boudin ran on his platform of less punitive justice, San Francisco already had one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country. In 2019, 106 adults were in prison for every 100,000 people, one-fifth the rate in California…

Are incarceration rates low because people behave or are they low because SF police don’t bother to arrest people?

They may also be low because there are no state prisons in SF county, so people with longer terms may be counted in the jurisdiction where they're being held.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#192

Post by bluGill »

chrisseaton wrote: post #188
CraigJPerry wrote: post #137

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

As long as they aren’t harming anyone why can’t you respect their wishes and leave them alone if that’s what they want? What if someone decided you needed help even after you made it clear you didn’t want it?

How do they do that and get their homeless number to zero?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#193

Post by chrisseaton »

bluGill wrote: post #192
chrisseaton wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as they aren’t harming anyone why can’t you respect their wishes and leave them alone if that’s what they want? What if someone decided you needed help even after you made it clear you didn’t want it?

How do they do that and get their homeless number to zero?

As long as the homeless people have been offered help and are not harming others why do you feel the need to do anything to them? Why does a class of person need to be reduced to ‘zero’? What if someone decided people like you had to be reduced to zero?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#194

Post by lhorie »

space_fountain wrote: post #184
lhorie wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I agree that the problem is most visible to newcomers precisely due to the housing layout around Tenderloin/SOMA, but frankly even once you go past that, it's fairly obvious that north/west SF is where affluent neighborhoods are (the trailer city near Lake Merced notwithstanding) and the south/east side is poor. Correlating school ratings to geographic location, for example, makes that divide abundantly clear. FW…

Yep, for sure. My point isn't that SF doesn't have problems, but that people form misimpression's of just how bad they are and those views get concentrated in places like hacker news

I mean, the human feces thing is a pretty tired argument for sure. It's not like there isn't also a dog feces problem. The fact that the latter doesn't get brought up at all speaks volumes about classism...

With that said, I don't think the property crime argument is being exaggerated at all. I have another comment highlighting my experience having lived in SF, Toronto and Sao Paulo (Brazil). I've also lived briefly in Brisbane (Australia). Nowhere else have I personally witnessed so much property crime as I have in SF.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#195

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

dillondoyle wrote: post #175
CraigJPerry wrote: post #137

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

Glasgow sounds like they are doing great by those numbers compared to at least my city. In my city subReddit I advocated for something that sounds similar; yes housing even for addicts who will shoot up in their new place. Got downvoted. Also people bitter that rent is unaffordable for them too and said no one is entitled to free or reduced rent, since they don't get that themselves. though kind of my point housing s…

Both from reading/researching and talking with people who work directly with the homeless locally, this seems to be the crux.

The really sad thing is just building the housing would be cheaper than what we're doing currently. But as soon as the city proposes it the NIMBYs come out like a hurricane refusing to allow it.

Salt Lake City is an instructive example. They've made a huge impact on homelessness there with a housing centric strategy.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#196

Post by diogenescynic »

nemo44x wrote: post #38

San Francisco is what happens when so many of your citizens are rich enough to opt into private everything and not have to deal with the effects of or take seriously the policies of the people their money puts into power. It’s a type of oligarchy and plutocracy where the patrons can pay to be seen and “adored” by the political class for social standing but can opt-out of every policy choice.

Agree, San Francisco is becoming ancapistan.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#197

Post by jackcosgrove »

dayyan wrote: post #8
TMWNN wrote: post #4

>As it is, the city has been safely Democratic for 40 years and seems allergic to choosing a Bloomberg-type figure from one of the big tech companies to try something different. San Francisco is what New York City would be like if it only had the UWS, Village, and Wall Street/Midtown. To put another way, if the Bay area had been unified a century ago as "San Francisco" including the Peninsula and East Bay, things wou…

The logic here implies an already dysfunctional government would fair better with more to govern.

That assumes SF city politics would take over the suburbs.

The city of Indianapolis years ago merged itself with its surrounding county, to unify city and suburbs. This was instigated by the Republican suburban leadership so that the metro region would remain under Republican control. Indianapolis has been a more politically moderate city than peers as a result.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#198

Post by muh_gradle »

pvarangot wrote: post #132
muh_gradle wrote: post #22

I was thinking of making the move to SF for the higher income. Seeing the past few years of the city have completely changed my mind though. Chesa Boudin physically makes my head hurt so much.

I wouldn't give up the higher income because you don't like the DA. If you don't read the news or hang out with people that are addicted to the news like /r/sanfrancisco you won't even notice. My way to deal with car crime is not owning a car, with the extra income I can afford to mostly use ridesharing for most of my needs and rent a car for the rest of them. Other than car crime, other forms of violent crime in SF…

I'm an Asian American. I have absolutely zero confidence that racist attacks against Asians are going to get better any time soon against people like me especially when a DA like Chesa Boudin refuses to take any single form of accountability in regards to crime.

I'll happily take a smaller paycheck if that means I don't have to constantly watch my back.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#199

Post by runarberg »

Manuel_D wrote: post #119
systemvoltage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with these assertions is that there is no data supporting it, but these stories and anecdotes keep circulating. I could make up 100 reasons to hypothesize how homeless could possible end up in California, but without data this is just thinly supported.

More robust question is to ask where they were living 10 years ago. It turns out half of the homeless weren't living in San Francisco ten years ago. Or put differently, they moved to the city within the last ten years. https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2019HIRDRep...

Ancestor’s source was about California, yours is San Francisco. Perhaps many of them lived in Oakland, some in Daly City, maybe some were going to the Humboldt State University 10 years ago and are now unhoused because of an overwhelming student dept, and some were agricultural workers in the Valley and weren’t able to gather enough savings to keep them selves housed.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#200

Post by muh_gradle »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #137

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

For those that are mentally ill, and especially if they are violent, you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need. It's an unpopular opinion. But frankly it's long overdue. For those that have the option to go to shelters, receive plenty of benefits (which SF most definitely provides) but prefer to be homeless, they need to be separated from major city areas where tourists, business people, and every day people want to live peacefully. I've seen enough of this the last few times I've been to SF and the bay area.
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