Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why is the article saying the opposite? The cited study in OP may have a slightly pro-vaccine bias, potentially because two authors have "the potential to receive a share of IP revenue" on a relevant patent, and because one author consults for Moderna. Regardless, the study presents scientifically accurate findings, but in a few places it tries to stretch those into questionable conclusions. For example, the author…
Thanks for the detailed review. We need AI bots and media metadata to enable automated "supply chain analysis" of media and journal articles, including social network analytics of finance and other influence networks. Such analytics are now beginning for software supply chains, thanks to a Presidential Executive Order. As warfare spreads from kinetic to cyber to psychological, we will need more tooling to keep pace w…
Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
191–200 of 250 posts
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
To acquire immunity naturally you have to get sick. In oder to acquire that immunity you have a 1% chance of dying, 2% chance of ending up in the hospital on a ventilator for a month, and a 20% chance of long haul covid. To acquire immunity from a vaccine you have a 0.001% chance of an allergic reaction. Which risk do you choose?
Sorry. I never said and never even meant to imply that you should try to get sick instead of getting the vaccine. Only that if you were already sick, that it greatly shifts your own risk/benefit profile in the direction of not getting the vaccine.
Which risk do you choose?
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#193The media and government overreaction to this virus is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the human race.
Biggest is a big claim. After they got away with the climate change scam they realised they can get away with anything. Two plus two equals five. Carbon dioxide is pollution not plant food.
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#194Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Millions of people have died in less than two years, 650,000 where I live in the US. More specifically here in Florida, ICU capacity is at 93%, and cases/hospitalizations/deaths are at record highs for the entire duration of the pandemic. People are being turned away for cancer treatments because there is simply no room at the hospital. The peak of daily deaths and infections in our state is right now . This is news…
Exactly. Modern day healthcare is keeping most Covid patients alive. But the disease is also putting a strain on modern day healthcare more than anything else ever has.
I'm coming at this more from the perspective that the panic over delta being something straight out of a Big Bad TV Trope that breaks all the previous rules, is that it completely undermines the effectiveness of the vaccination campaign. The current best antivaxxer argument right now is just that all the headlines show that the vaccines don't work. I'm pushing back against that. It still looks to me like nobody has given me any indications the vaccines don't work. I think their VE against delta has been dramatically understated, the waning immunity has not been proven, and their efficacy against transmission is probably a lot higher than currently assumed.
At some point in the future I'll agree with the perspective that we need to start treating this more like the flu, but if the hospital systems are falling over we aren't there yet.
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
You remember correctly: More than 99% of recent deaths were among the unvaccinated, infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said earlier this month on NBC's Meet the Press, while Walensky noted on Friday that unvaccinated people accounted for over 97% of hospitalizations. https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017002907/u-s-covid-deaths-a...
That is wild. The situation in UK is nowhere near '99% unvaccinated suffer terrible outcome'. On 20th August, Public Health England published a report that is quite a bit more balanced. From Table 5, pp 22-23, Delta cases: overnight inpatient admissions (inclusion#) all ages unknown 99 For all adults percent fully vaccinated is 75%, whereas for https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... https://w…
https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
The UK and Israel both have very high vaccination rates of older people, and lower fully vaccinated rates of younger people. Someone who is 75 most likely has a much weaker immune system than someone who is 25, to the point where someone who is 75 and fully vaccinated may have a much harder time fighting the virus than someone who is 25 and unvaccinated.
The data from Israel if broken down by under and over 50s, shows the vaccine efficiency is 92% for under 50s and 85% for over 50s. Israel mainly used Pfizer though, where as the UK mainly AstraZeneca, so there could also be differences there.
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have evidence that this is the best course of action?
Well the obvious problems with it is that it's hard to tell you've been infected and you need to quarantine for the entire duration until you are sure you've been infected and have recovered. Apart from that, if the protection from a vaccine is temporary then there's no reason to believe your immune system will learn anything from an infection it can already handle. That part of the immune response takes a while and…
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
What the linked study [1] is saying is that unvaccinated people who get COVID-19 are even more likely to get Myocarditis than vaccinated people ; it counters the allegation that people should not get vaccinated because of the risk of Myocarditis. Even if the vaccine increased the risk (it doesn’t), the risk of COVID-19 is orders of magnitude higher than the risk of the Myocarditis heart condition. There have been, fr…
> COVID-19, on the other hand, has an overall 1.66% chance of killing someone (38,043,754 cases, 629,644 deaths) What you calculated is the case fatality rate (CFR), but the infection fatality rate (IFR) is a better representation of risk from SARS-COV-2 infection. The global average IFR is recently estimated to be ~0.15% [1], which is extremely skewed by age. All estimates of age stratified IFR show a gradient that…
There have been 2,630 deaths from COVID-19 for 18-29 year olds (never mind the suffering COVID-19 causes people in this age range) in the US. Something that causes 2,630 deaths is more risky than something causing 229 non-fatal hospital visits (the heart condition which has gotten far too much attention).
In terms of IFR vs. case fatality rate, the most comprehensive metastudy you cite, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/eci.13... estimates that we only have 1 case per 10 infections (the Lau 2021 paper which claims we only have 1 case per 50-100 infections is obviously not true in the United States, since the cumulative COVID-19 case count is over 10% of the US population; don’t put too much faith in and do not cherry pick an individual study). Assuming an IFR 10x the CFR, we have a 0.16% IFR rate, which is still orders of magnitude larger than the 0.002% rate we are seeing with people who get that non-fatal heart condition after getting the vaccine (and there’s evidence that they are more likely to get the heart condition from an actual COVID-19 infection than from a vaccine)[1]. Before you repeat the “but young people” argument, an order of magnitude more young people have died from COVID-19 than have gotten that generally non-fatal Myocarditis heart condition after being vaccinated. So we know the risk factor of getting a vaccine is lower. [2]
Critical thinking is one thing, but there are a lot of bad faith actors in the “COVID skepticism” movement. Roughly speaking, vaccines have a near-zero chance of having averse side effects, a significant chance of reducing spread of COVID-19 (I myself am still skeptical about the studies which claim vaccinated people still spread the virus to unvaccinated people, since we’re generally seeing an exponential decrease in COVID-19 cases in places where a higher percentage of people are vaccinated), and greatly reduce hospitalizations of people who get COVID-19 [3].
It’s well known that, in the US, skepticism of vaccines and public health measures, unfortunately, have a political bias, and, lo and behold, people with a “COVID denial” (deny that masks help [4], refuse to take the vaccine, refuse to avoid large indoor social gatherings, etc.) political bent are much more likely to get a case of COVID-19 significant enough to report: https://i.redd.it/4o4i7arucpj71.png
A lot of this “skepticism” I am seeing reminds me of the young earth creationist arguments which I have seen over the years; they will take any evidence for a young earth, no matter how tenuous, and pretend it’s the one truth while ignoring all of the extensive evidence for an old earth. It’s bad faith arguing; young earth creationists and anti-vaxx “skeptics” do not argue in good faith.
This bad-faith skepticism -- which usually consists of poorly researched nonsense like claiming Myocarditis is a real concern if someone gets the vaccine -- is putting people in hospitals and bad-faith skepticism is killing people. I am having to avoid certain family members because they have drunk the kool-aid and refuse to vaccinate.
[1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v...
[2] To address the “Rambo” argument that young people who do not have co-morbid conditions are unlikely to die from COVID-19, their chance of getting any adverse side effects from the vaccine is also very very low. See https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2021-06-18/p...
[3] https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/5Qts7/9/
[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7393808/ shows that masks do help
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
This raises an interesting question: is someone who is waiting for an effective intranasal vaccine to get something more like sterilizing immunity, and foregoing the less-effective vaccine meanwhile, anti-vax?
Yes. The odds of dying from covid: 1% The odds of dying from covid after current vaccine: <0.015%
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
> COVID-19, on the other hand, has an overall 1.66% chance of killing someone (38,043,754 cases, 629,644 deaths). An honest, apples to apples statistical comparison here would compare 18-24 year old death rates to 18-24 year old heart problems risk, not lumping all deaths regardless of age together. > I would rather take a 0.002% non-fatal risk than a 1.66% fatal risk. Statistical problems aside, I’m happy if you tak…
The unvaccinated are volunteering themselves as breeders for the next stronger and nastier version of covid, and they pose an active danger to those who cannot be vaccinated.
The main COVID-19 mutations of concern right now are happening in other countries where the vaccine is not widely available yet. The Delta variant was first seen in India, the Beta variant was first seen in South Africa, and the Gamma variant was first seen in Brazil.
We need to make sure the entire world is vaccinated to stop these mutations from coming out of the woodwork.
(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2 for sources and discussion)