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Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

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191–200 of 259 posts

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#191
post #3

It's really a shame what has happened to Blue Origin. They've gone from a promising space startup to yet another purveyor of perpetual vaporware. Where is the BE-4 engine? Delayed, again and again. New Glenn, the rocket that could actually go into orbit? Same. So far their only functioning hardware (New Shephard) is, in effect, a glorified amusement park ride. Considering that SpaceX has actually made it to orbit mul…

Is Blue Origin slow, or is SpaceX really, really fast?

Yes and yes. I expect Blue Origin are playing catch up with star ship. New Glenn could only self land the booster, not the upper stage. There's no way that could compete with star ship, it almost doesn't compete with falcon heavy.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe in the 60s, current NASA is living off past accomplishments

What are you talking about? NASA is the foremost explorer of Mars, no other country is even close. NASA does plenty to keep its name in good scientific standing and accomplishment.

Does NASA have mulitiple programs, some of which are more effective than others? Hint: SLS/Orion is not Planetary Sciences is not Earth Sciences is not Aeronautics is not Astronomy.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#193

Anyone has insight into what BO's problems are? I heard that they had leadership problems but otherwise a top notch staff. People love to flame Jeff Bezos but if you look at his management of Amazon, I wouldn't dismiss him casually with regard to BO. He might not have the engineering chops of Musk but I'm sure he can put the right leadership in place to turn this ship around, now that he'll be focusing on this full t…

Their problem was the Bezos hired a some Old Space guy as a CEO and his goal was to 'turn BlueOrigin into a series space company that can win government contract' and by that he means turning it into a traditional Old Space company.

But the way the new world works, that approach loses out against SpaceX.

And unlike the real Old Space companies BlueOrigin doesn't have lots of military contract or a airplane business to actually make money.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#194
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 'jobs agency' that has produced a whole lot of technical advancements, maybe.

I'm not talking about that; I'm talking about Congress, the guys with the checkbook. For them, it's a jobs program. They're the next stop for Bezos, btw. This ain't over.

They were the previous stop for Bezos, were they not? That was why the GAO was even directed to look into this.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#195
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is like saying that the meek shall inherit the earth - or what is left of it when the bold have taken all they wanted. Slow and steady is just that, slow. There is a place for it, e.g. when refining an established practice like mining or internal combustion engines. Commercial space exploration is a place where rapid advances can be made by visionary explorers, only once you can buy an off-the-shelf space miniva…

The actual saying is closer to "the disciplined shall inherit the earth".

Can you give a citation on that? I’ve seen rather, well, creative interpretations of Bible verses online before, and I’m wondering if the text actually supports this translation.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#196
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know congress funds a lot more for space than SLS, right?

Have you noticed that most critics aren't complaining about all of NASA, but mainly about SLS/Orion? On reddit, what usually happens is that SLS defenders try to misrepresent attacks on SLS as an attack on all of NASA, parenthood, and apple pie. And so the world turns.

"NASA is a jobs agency." is pretty clear.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about that; I'm talking about Congress, the guys with the checkbook. For them, it's a jobs program. They're the next stop for Bezos, btw. This ain't over.

They were the previous stop for Bezos, were they not? That was why the GAO was even directed to look into this.

Yeah, that's what I read. Do you think Congresscritters won't take meetings with BO lobbyists this time around?

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#198
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk's motivation, which he has expressed repeatedly, is to make humanity resilient to an event that makes Earth uninhabitable. Whatever that event might be (asteroid impact, nuclear war, environmental catastrophe, plague, whatever), I think the idea of having a second site of human habitation is not an unreasonable goal. Which is not, as has sometimes been stated, "giving up on Earth and the rich moving to Mars" --…

Mars is already uninhabitable, so what would we gain from moving to Mars? The Earth is not going to become as bad as Mars with any possible disaster smaller than a planetary collision. Also, a Mars colony that could survive indefinitely if the Earth is wiped out is almost certainly impossible, given the extreme conditions on Mars' surface. We don't even know if there is enough water ice on Mars today to sustain a hum…

> Also, a Mars colony that could survive indefinitely if the Earth is wiped out is almost certainly impossible, given the extreme conditions on Mars' surface.

Let's say you have a Martian colony of 100,000 people. It is self-sufficient in basic goods but still relies on imports from Earth for many advanced goods. Something terrible happens, and imports from Earth are no longer possible. Those 100,000 people have a choice – find a way to make do with what they have, or die. I don't think we should underestimate human ingenuity in such circumstances. They'll lose access to a lot of highly advanced goods – for example, they probably won't have their own leading-edge semiconductor fabs – but they may be able to survive without them, using more basic goods to take their place.

> Then, you'll also be missing nitrogen

The atmosphere of Mars is around 2.8% nitrogen. There are likely to also be nitrate minerals in the Martian soil and rock.

> Oxygen will be in short supply

Mars' atmosphere is 95% CO2. You can extract oxygen from CO2 by electrolysis. The MOXIE experiment on Perseverance has demonstrated this.

> and solar winds are constantly stripping away Mars' atmosphere

On human timescales (decades to millennia), Martian atmosphere lost to space isn't significant.

> Also, the cost of building a self sustaining colony on Mars is well above the GDP of the world many times over

I think Musk is going to try to establish a settlement on Mars, initially with tens of people, then hundreds, then thousands. And becoming fully self-sustaining is going to be their long-term goal. But I don't think actual full self-sustaining status is going to be achieved for several centuries.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#199
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue Origin arguably did the first verticals landing from “space” as defined by 100km of altitude in 2015. Though the lunar lander is perhaps the more famous vertical landing from space in 1969, following earlier soft landings like Luna 9 1966, and a lot of earlier VTVL rocket research at the time. SpaceX started on powered decent in 2011 achieving it’s first landing from an actual orbital space flight in 2015. I don…

> SpaceX started on powered decent in 2011 achieving it’s first landing from an actual orbital space flight in 2015 I'm not sure how important/big the difference is, but IIRC spaceX only lands boosters that never actually reach orbital velocity. They help boost things into orbital velocity, sure, but the things that land under powered flight never actually reach orbital velocity, right? I'm aware that the crew dragon…

Yes, but what I was getting at was the safety factor. As part of the first stage of an orbital rocket SpaceX was stuck with a ~20% safety factor if they wanted to get significant cargo to orbit, where Blue Origin could seriously over engineer the rocket without any obvious problems.

I am not saying they fudged things or that it was easy, just that it wasn’t the kind of litmus test you see on an actual orbital rocket.

Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX

#200
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk's motivation, which he has expressed repeatedly, is to make humanity resilient to an event that makes Earth uninhabitable. Whatever that event might be (asteroid impact, nuclear war, environmental catastrophe, plague, whatever), I think the idea of having a second site of human habitation is not an unreasonable goal. Which is not, as has sometimes been stated, "giving up on Earth and the rich moving to Mars" --…

Humans surviving long term off of Earth, I think, is still just a pipe dream and pure sci-fi. I agree with the idea, I think it is something humanity should attempt, but it is atleast 100 years too soon to even attempt. It is like trying to build a space station in the 18th or 19th century.

What's wrong with trying now? (By "now" I mean, "in the next 20 years".) So long as nobody gets killed, if it fails, at least we can say we've tried. Trying now may bring forward the date at which it is actually feasible compared to putting off trying.

Even if people die–and they may–if they make a free and fully informed choice to sign up to something which may risk their lives, and they end up dying as a result – wasn't it their right to take that risk? There are a lot of people out there, who will view being one of the first humans to attempt to live on another planet something worth risking death for.

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