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Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

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Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#191

Post by modeless »

yalogin wrote: post #38

How is it even physically possible to deliver 400 packages in 10 hours? That comes to 1.5 minutes per package. One cannot do it even if it’s in the same area and every house has a package. Amazon employees already pee in a bottle to save time now they need to learn magic too?

Obviously the targets will be different for different routes. If you assume that's 400 packages delivered to 400 separate single family homes then it doesn't work. But if it's 400 packages delivered to 200 apartments/condos served by 20 mailrooms, that's doable.

We often get two or three Amazon packages in one delivery. There are easily 20+ packages dropped off all at once in the mailroom of our building most days.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#192

Post by avereveard »

nrmitchi wrote: post #17
whatok wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing packages to deliveries is apples to oranges. I don't disagree that these jobs are rough but 120 deliveries with an average of 3-4 packages per delivery paints a similar picture.

> an average of 3-4 packages per delivery Do you have any source for this? It seems like a really weird assumption to make, especially given that Amazon will already bundle multiple orders into the same package.

also unknown if they are counting deliveries to locker

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#193

Post by CydeWeys »

nrmitchi wrote: post #17
whatok wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing packages to deliveries is apples to oranges. I don't disagree that these jobs are rough but 120 deliveries with an average of 3-4 packages per delivery paints a similar picture.

> an average of 3-4 packages per delivery Do you have any source for this? It seems like a really weird assumption to make, especially given that Amazon will already bundle multiple orders into the same package.

How are you defining delivery? Packages going to the same address? I live in a development of ~100 unit apartment buildings. It will literally take the UPS/FedEx truck all day to go less than a thousand feet through the development, and in that time they're delivering hundreds of packages.

Also, Amazon has a large number of different warehouses that products are shipped from, and it's quite common for different items/orders to not ship together either for that reason or because some items' availability would slow down the others.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#194

Post by NortySpock »

alisonkisk wrote: post #134
softwaredoug wrote: post #119

> "The companies were losing money and employees trying to satisfy Amazon and their constant abusive changes,” Tom Rask, an attorney for Last Mile and Triton, told Motherboard. "You have to hire numerous drivers who may or may not be working. One day Amazon dictates that you have thirty routes, the next day forty, then the day after twenty. You’re supposed to have enough drivers for back-up while Amazon is lowering p…

This is basically how shift work in hospitality and service jobs works, and it's terrible. Some people claim it's done intentionally to prevent workers from working other jobs where they might get tired or escape the first job.

Well, part of it might be intentional.

The other part might be just the organic result of shoving the complications of varying hourly load and varying worker availability week-to-week onto those willing or desperate to work extra hours.

Schedules get jumbled, work hours get fragmented like a garbage collector's memory management without a compaction step.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#195

Post by tenebrisalietum »

paulpauper wrote: post #171
softwaredoug wrote: post #119

> "The companies were losing money and employees trying to satisfy Amazon and their constant abusive changes,” Tom Rask, an attorney for Last Mile and Triton, told Motherboard. "You have to hire numerous drivers who may or may not be working. One day Amazon dictates that you have thirty routes, the next day forty, then the day after twenty. You’re supposed to have enough drivers for back-up while Amazon is lowering p…

Freelancing just sounds awful for this reason. Yeah some ppl can make a lot but still seems like an awful way to make money if you are an american. Consulting is somewhat different

It's like any other business - you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket - either with suppliers, clients/customers, or employees. Optimally a freelancer will not be stuck with one client.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#196

Post by barbazoo »

tsegratis wrote: post #108

Using AWS supports abuse? At least for me, I think I can't support Amazon's treatment of people. Is there a way we on HN can have an effect here, and could avoiding AWS be a start? Or is there a better way, or am I wrong to draw such conclusions?

Good point and I think it depends on your own values where you draw the line. If you despise Amazon's practices in one "business unit" enough it might warrant moving off AWS. But then, where do you go? I wouldn't be surprised that you could find unethical behavior at the other conglomerates as well.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#197

Post by dehrmann »

cartoonworld wrote: post #137
tablespoon wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is more or less how it should be. If Amazon isn't going to offer a good enough deal, then companies shouldn't move packages for them. Not really. These companies are basically committing suicide, because Amazon is in such a dominant position. The way is should be is that they could have put pressure on Amazon much earlier, instead of being forced into such extreme action. Nothing will change. Amazon will just…

I have direct experience interacting with the Amazon delivery partner fleet operations. I don't disagree, I would like to add a few details to the discussion. There's one important nuance missing in all this and that is that the Fleet contractors, those who own and operate the ProMaster and MB step-vans, they are "independent operators" who are sole suppliers, totally beholden to Amazon. I suspect it is extremely lim…

> they are "independent operators" who are sole suppliers, totally beholden to Amazon.

I guess this is one way to get around regulation of Uber-style independent contractor regulations. I have no idea why someone would start a company this small doing a commodity service with Amazon as your only customer, especially considering Amazon's reputation.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#198

Post by Isinlor »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #146
commandlinefan wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> markets don't self-regulate The linked article is an example of the market self-regulating.

Small businesses being forced to decide between shutting down and operating unsafely with some minimal hope of profitability is indeed a perfect and inspiring example of how "markets self-regulate."

That's how all businesses operate. If you can't make it, you shut down. If you open unprofitable barber shop you will have to shut down too. But I guess it's hard to be upset at people for not wanting your hair cut.

If you start a business with Amazon it's probably a good idea to google other companies experiences.

Re: Two Portland delivery companies revolt against Amazon, shut down

#199

Post by techsupporter »

bamboozled wrote: post #152
jmeister wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corporate gains What about customers? They seem to be happy to ignore how the sausage is made, to have stuff delivered to their doorsteps cheap and fast.

We're not "happy" customers, we see issues with Amazon and AWS, but we wouldn't be competitive from a price standpoint if we rolled out own infra, or hired people to do it.

This view--not that you hold it, but that it exists--frustrates the hell out of me.

"We don't like being a customer of the company that clubs baby seals but our customers would leave us if we didn't use the company that clubs baby seals so I guess we should pay up for some more clubs."

It's a pretty glaring example that "free markets" usually aren't, and often unrelated to government intervention. You have information, you have agency, and you have the thing that the other party wants (money), yet you don't feel free to move away from a supplier who you clearly view as unsuitable[0] because that supplier has gained a market position so dominant through exploiting others.

0 - If I am reading too much into your comment, I apologize and don't mean to put words into your mouth.

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