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Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

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Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#191

Post by vel0city »

judge2020 wrote: post #123
heavyset_go wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can go across the street to a dozen different stores. If I travel a little further, I can go to even more stores. No matter where I go, with Apple and Google, I'm have to use their payment systems and give each of them a 30% cut of my apps' revenue. They both have a duopoly in the mobile operating systems market and the mobile app distribution market, and Apple has the majority of the market share in both markets i…

The difference is that Walmart didn't build the street or the city and doesn't have a right to take a cut of sales on other people's property. A more apt comparison would be the third-party hotels that, if they want to use some of Disney's 25,000 acres in Florida[0], literally have to lease the land from Disney and Disney can impose terms like a cut of sales (or a forced Disney merchandise store within the hotel). iO…

There are tons of resorts and hotels completely unrelated to Disney that exist right at the gates of Disnyworld that offer shuttles. There are even more resorts in Kissimmee that are just a short drive away. As someone who has been to Disneyworld over a dozen times and never once stayed in a Disney resort, there are a ton of places to stay and still visit Disneyworld.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#192

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

simondotau wrote: post #149
rchaud wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never had to go to the Mac App Store to download Finder though.

If you did have to download Finder from the Mac App Store, would that turn Finder into a competitor of Dropbox?

Only if it means that Finder doesn’t have any special system access privileges - or that Dropbox can do everything Finder can - so Finder and Dropbox would be on equal-footing.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#193

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

mhh__ wrote: post #179
crazygringo wrote: post #2

These are exactly the kinds of issues antitrust legislation needs to be updated to handle. I have no issue with a company running a store and selling its own products within, but it has to provide a level playing field. It's good they fixed it -- that the VP in question didn't know it had been done and then nixed it -- but this shouldn't even be legal in the first place.

Speaking of anti-trust, surely Apple must be getting close to (or beyond) what Microsoft were? Total control over their users, hidden APIs, apparently biased store, rentseeking etc. My £0.02 is that if they aren't already over the line the line should be nudged against their favour.

They're nothing like Microsoft was; Windows was something like 97% of all PCs. I'm not aware of Apple having more than 50% of any market. You can't abuse a monopoly that you don't have. (Of course, collusion/duopoly and saying that they dominate some smaller market, say paid mobile apps, are valid arguments, but nothing like as cut-and-dry as peak MS).

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#194

Post by vel0city »

ElFitz wrote: post #55
passivate wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to re-evaluate what "rights" mean in a digital age. Apple should not have a monopoly on digital stores on iOS. "Apple made it so they can do anything they want. Take it or leave it" - is not an acceptable position (in my opinion). >By that logic costco has no competitors whatsoever that sell kirkland signature products. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and what 'that logic' is?

Honestly, if I were to make a platform and someone else were to come by and somehow force my hand regarding what should be allowed on it and how they should be ranked in it, I’d just shut it all down, even the company if need be, give their money back to whatever investors there may be, and walk away. Let them have fun building it themselves if they want it to run any other way. But that’s just me, and it probably sp…

Honestly, if I were to make an petroleum refining company and someone else were to come by and somehow force my hand regarding what should be allowed to be dumped into the river or not I'd just shut it down, even the company if need be, give their money back to whatever investors there may be, and walk away. Let them have fun building it themselves if they want to run any other way.

/s

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#195

Post by wincy »

l33t2328 wrote: post #145
Nextgrid wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple brand is still where things mostly "just work". Sure, it's significantly declined in the last few years, but it's still ahead of Linux, and while Windows was great during the Windows 7 era and Microsoft definitely has the resources to compete, it seems like they're intentionally degrading the experience with Windows 10.

Why do you say they’re degrading the experience?

The other day I had a windows upgrade and suddenly had weather on my desktop. I thought it was some malware I’d downloaded. Nope, new windows feature with a confusing way to disable it so I had to Google it.

My next laptop will definitely be a MacBook.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#196

Post by weird-eye-issue »

yyyk wrote: post #124
ummonk wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but even before reading the article I figured this was an algorithmic mistake, and apparently it is: "While Apple didn’t challenge the idea that Files was unfairly ranked over Dropbox, the company says the reality was a simple mistake: the Files app had a Dropbox integration, so Apple put “Dropbox” into the app’s metadata, and it was automatically ranked higher for “Dropbox” searches as a result."

The emails themselves say it was a "manual boost" rather than the PR explanation you provided.

I'm a little conflicted who to believe. But it sounds like there are specific keywords an app developer can specify for their apps that signals to the App Store search what to rank for (kind of like having keywords on your website tells Google what your page is about). From my understanding Apple manually put "Dropbox" as one of the keywords and that is what they removed. If other app developers can put in keywords like that (and not just Apple for their own apps) then it doesn't sound too bad... But if it was a separate system that is not accessible to other developers to manipulate then that is less cool.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#197

Post by ummonk »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #173
ummonk wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but even before reading the article I figured this was an algorithmic mistake, and apparently it is: "While Apple didn’t challenge the idea that Files was unfairly ranked over Dropbox, the company says the reality was a simple mistake: the Files app had a Dropbox integration, so Apple put “Dropbox” into the app’s metadata, and it was automatically ranked higher for “Dropbox” searches as a result."

If(query=='dropbox') BoostInternallApp('files') Not really sure how that can be a "mistake"

No, it was just BoostInteralApp('files').

Now, since both Dropbox and Files were results for the "dropbox" search term (because the Files app contained "dropbox" in its metadata if Dropbox was installed, and metadata got indexed by the search system), the latter ended up first due to getting boosted.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#198

Post by JKCalhoun »

codesternews wrote: post #28

Apple has made life of small developers hard. Mac software and app industry has died. Even after notarising apps they show malicious popup to users. Same practices has adapted by apple like search ad etc etc. They make competing services and steal ideas of developers and those app dies. For eg screen time for Moments app. They have unfair advantage and small developers could not complete. Only handful of indie develo…

Interesting take. I felt developers, by racing to the bottom on price, killed themselves.

When a neighbor I did not even really know (and this was perhaps close to 10 years ago) told me she never buys apps anymore, she only downloads the free ones, I knew the jig was up.

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#199

Post by ummonk »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #196
yyyk wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The emails themselves say it was a "manual boost" rather than the PR explanation you provided.

I'm a little conflicted who to believe. But it sounds like there are specific keywords an app developer can specify for their apps that signals to the App Store search what to rank for (kind of like having keywords on your website tells Google what your page is about). From my understanding Apple manually put "Dropbox" as one of the keywords and that is what they removed. If other app developers can put in keywords l…

Apple's explanation makes perfect sense. They didn't manually put "Dropbox" as one of the keyboards, but the integration of Dropbox with Files results in "Dropbox" being automatically added to the metadata of the Files app, and the metadata automatically gets indexed by the search system

Re: Apple admits it ranked its Files app ahead of competitor Dropbox

#200

Post by ummonk »

yyyk wrote: post #124
ummonk wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but even before reading the article I figured this was an algorithmic mistake, and apparently it is: "While Apple didn’t challenge the idea that Files was unfairly ranked over Dropbox, the company says the reality was a simple mistake: the Files app had a Dropbox integration, so Apple put “Dropbox” into the app’s metadata, and it was automatically ranked higher for “Dropbox” searches as a result."

The emails themselves say it was a "manual boost" rather than the PR explanation you provided.

The point is that the manual boost was for the Files app in general, not for the "Dropbox" search query specifically.
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