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Apple-Developer Relations

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Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#191

Post by indymike »

actuator wrote: post #66
handrous wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful what you wish for. Safari's forced presence on the most lucrative mobile platform is the reason we don't, for all practical purposes, have only one browser engine, period , now. Which is something only nerds like us care about on a technical level, so I don't think the typical user is harmed or bothered by all browsers on iOS sharing an engine, but the social harm of Google 100% owning the Web would reach…

While your concern is genuine, Apple almost has 60% of the active mobile device market share(according to Statcounter). I think my concern is two fold. - Apple holds the gateway to both App Store and Web(through standard support). Having worked on web apps in the past, I truly admire the amazing distribution capability the web provides. I can spin up an obscure Linux distro and my web app works on it as long as a bro…

Android is showing 72.72% of market share on statcounter.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#192

Post by josephg »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #174

I think the core sentiment here is being lost. This isn’t so much a call to action against Apple’s fees. It’s pointing out something that I’ve felt building over the last couple of years out of Apple, which is an attitude of hubris, contempt, and a “taking for granted” of Apple’s developers. The WWDC spiel of how much they value us has become trite and transparent. They do produce some really nice tools and APIs. I c…

> They do produce some really nice tools and APIs. I can’t knock what they provide developers.

I wish that were true. But Xcode today feels like a bloated, buggy mess. It crashes regularly, and sometimes it lags so badly writing swift code that it drops keystrokes. It feels like permanently beta software, where the team never has time to fix the bugs in the last version before they’re rushing the next version out the door.

Working in javascript and rust sets the bar for tooling and documentation much higher than Apple seems currently able to reach.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#193

Post by yoz-y »

Angostura wrote: post #157
makecheck wrote: post #152

Yep. It is not surprising at all that the term “insulting” appears three times because that’s how it feels for so many reasons. Remember: - They pretend with a straight face like it was somehow impossible to sell software or reach customers before their magical store made it happen. - They pretend like the current “search” feature of the App Store is not a sad reduction of what it used to be (or what it could be if a…

> - They pretend with a straight face like it was somehow impossible to sell software or reach customers before their magical store made it happen. I've never heard them claim that. The claim is that for an appliance like a phone - rather than a general purpose computer - device reliability trumps all, including the ability for the consumer to run arbitrary code on the device.

They have claimed multiple times that before the App Store you had to get your programs from a brick and mortar store at a large commission, which justifies their 30%. Conveniently omitting that internet has already existed.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#194

Post by JoeyJoJoJr »

post_break wrote: post #13

I used to love browsing the app store looking for cool apps. Now I can't even trust searching for the app by name because sometimes a completely different app shows up, and then there is the case of appstore ads. It's a joke.

I recently released an app with one word purposely misspelt (the first word has a z at the end instead of an s). Even if you type in the full app name it still appears as the 5th search result.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#195

Post by giantrobot »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #174

I think the core sentiment here is being lost. This isn’t so much a call to action against Apple’s fees. It’s pointing out something that I’ve felt building over the last couple of years out of Apple, which is an attitude of hubris, contempt, and a “taking for granted” of Apple’s developers. The WWDC spiel of how much they value us has become trite and transparent. They do produce some really nice tools and APIs. I c…

Mac developers have been bitching about Apple for 30+ years. There are lots of valid criticisms. At the same time I find the "Apple takes us for granted" complaints a little hollow.

I think a lot of developers discount the platform and think it's all their apps that bring in iOS uses. This was more true in the 90s on the Mac. The platform Apple provided was good but it was the third party software that really made the platform what it was.

There's a handful on Windows applications I remember today. It's only because I used them all the time. On the other hand there's a ton of Mac apps I remember candidly even though I used them far less frequently.

The iOS platform of 2021 is not the Mac platform of 1995 or even 2001. Apple moves more iOS devices in a quarter than they moved Macs for the entirety of the 90s. Third party apps a an important part of the iOS platform but they're not the primary driver of device sales.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#196

Post by yoz-y »

xchaotic wrote: post #118

„ Without our apps, the iPhone has little value to most of its customers today.” I call bs on that. I can’t be the only person who uses stock apple email and very few 3rd party apps. Yes it’s even better with those apps, but even on its own, a nicely working phone with email and good camera provides a lot of value and utility for me. The 3rd party apps only add like 5% for me.

You are probably in an extremely small minority. At the very least most people have their 2-3 messaging apps of choice, without which the phone might as well be a brick.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#197

Post by koyote »

tshaddox wrote: post #92
shkkmo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple's AppStore is really so good, it should be able to withstand a little healthy competition from 3rd party stores. Who knows, a little competition might even inspire the AppStore to become even better?

One could argue that this is a bit like saying “if McDonald’s burgers are so good, they should be able to withstand putting competing restaurants’ burgers on their menu.”

A restaurant only sells its own merchandise so this comparison does not make any sense.

The App Store is a 'store' in this case (it's in the name) and is the only store where you can buy items for your Apple home.

Imagine if Walmart sold homes and you could only put items in it that were bought at Walmart.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#198

Post by swiley »

tshaddox wrote: post #92
shkkmo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple's AppStore is really so good, it should be able to withstand a little healthy competition from 3rd party stores. Who knows, a little competition might even inspire the AppStore to become even better?

One could argue that this is a bit like saying “if McDonald’s burgers are so good, they should be able to withstand putting competing restaurants’ burgers on their menu.”

It's more like saying "if McDonald's burgers are so good they should be able to withstand competing restaurants in the same town."

The users buy the phone, not Apple. It's amazing this is even contraversial.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#199

Post by etchalon »

The apparent disconnect for me:

1. Apps, as a rule, absolutely add value to the iOS ecosystem, and are a necessity.

2. But any single specific application doesn't.

iOS needs podcasting apps, but if Overcast disappeared, something else would just take its place. "Developers" as a whole are important for Apple to keep happy, but no specific developer matters all that much to them.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#200

Post by Terretta »

josteink wrote: post #124
Terretta wrote: post #50

CC processing and CDN is disingenuously reductive of the experience users have been subjected to buying digital software other ways. Users don’t choose an app store based on how good the processor or download is, or even on discovery, but on trust. Some portion of this fee, arguably much of it, is a friction and trust gap between one experience and the experiences they have elsewhere. Just as someone doesn’t choose t…

> Users don’t choose an app store based on how good the processor or download is, or even on discovery, but on trust. Yes. For instance if people could install the Steam store on their phones, gamers would do so in droves and Apple don’t want people to be given that choice. That would cut into their ability to tax and control all commerce happening on the user’s device, which to be clear, is not Apple’s property. The…

Or, say, SetApp’s iOS apps.

Are droves doing that? (I am.)

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