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Apple-Developer Relations

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Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#111

Post by josteink »

Despegar wrote: post #72

>If Apple wishes to continue advancing bizarre corporate-accounting arguments, the massive profits from the hardware business are what therefore truly “pay the way” of the App Store, public APIs, developer tools, and other app-development resources, just as the hardware profits must fund the development of Apple’s own hardware, software, and services that make the iPhone appeal to customers. You can ignore everything…

> This is understandable from a business perspective; everyone wants lower costs and higher profits. But it's certainly not in Apple's customers' interests for their business model to change to accommodate developers.

I’ll bite. Why not?

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#112

Post by tshaddox »

cmckn wrote: post #103
post_break wrote: post #13

I used to love browsing the app store looking for cool apps. Now I can't even trust searching for the app by name because sometimes a completely different app shows up, and then there is the case of appstore ads. It's a joke.

This is another way to extract money from developers -- you have to purchase the search ad for your own app in order to show up first when someone searches for the exact name of your app. Not only does this cost feel a bit silly, it can also be substantial. From the blog's author, Marco Arment, who develops Overcast: https://twitter.com/marcoarment/status/1392089383864393728/p... CPT (cost for a single tap): $2.18 CP…

Would fewer restrictions on publishing apps that pretend to be other apps somehow improve the situation?

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#113

Post by addicted »

enos_feedler wrote: post #30

"The “way” is already paid by the hardware — but Apple uses their position of power to double-dip." I understand the optics of this don't look good, but is it wrong to have multiple sources of revenue derived from the "way"? 1. what happens if supply chain dynamics and smartphone market competition negatively impact the hardware margins? What happens when consumer appetite for innovation in the phone stagnates and ma…

Marco literally states that it’s not wrong pointing out that it’s their business prerogative and further they aren’t known for being very generous anyways.

So you’re arguing a straw man.

And if the service revenue was supporting hardware revenue Apple’s services wouldn’t largely be limited to Apple devices.

Besides, Apple is a public company and we can see how those revenues break out. Further, we can guess that even the relatively minuscule service income would largely disappear, if, for example, I could download apps at a 15% discount using a non Apple App Store to an iPhone and not have to jailbreak the iPhone.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#114

Post by smoldesu »

simonh wrote: post #86
enos_feedler wrote: post #30

"The “way” is already paid by the hardware — but Apple uses their position of power to double-dip." I understand the optics of this don't look good, but is it wrong to have multiple sources of revenue derived from the "way"? 1. what happens if supply chain dynamics and smartphone market competition negatively impact the hardware margins? What happens when consumer appetite for innovation in the phone stagnates and ma…

Hmm, I generally take the pro-Apple stance on this. I don’t want side loading or third party stores. It’s Apples product and they get to decide what features it has, IMHO. I don’t want government committees dictating the security model and software architecture of my phone, thanks. However Marco’s argument is spot on. Apple is saying in Senate hearings that App developers are picking up crumbs from the App Store’s fl…

This is definitely a case where our Senate is out of it's depths. Software licensing and the world of software distribution is still a remarkably new field in the political world, so it makes sense that our government is totally lost here. There is no precedent for what Apple is doing. This is the licensing nightmare scenario all of the BSD developers warned about when Sony sold the Playstation Linux Kit: we no longer own the hardware we buy, we simply lease it from someone who provisions us authority to it as they see fit. It's a harrowing paradigm.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#115

Post by ksec »

enos_feedler wrote: post #30

"The “way” is already paid by the hardware — but Apple uses their position of power to double-dip." I understand the optics of this don't look good, but is it wrong to have multiple sources of revenue derived from the "way"? 1. what happens if supply chain dynamics and smartphone market competition negatively impact the hardware margins? What happens when consumer appetite for innovation in the phone stagnates and ma…

>How do we know the price of the hardware today isn't offset by services revenue?

Unless you want to some doggy NRE number into accounting. Apple's hardware are extremely profitable doesn't matter how you spin or slice it.

But, yes. Today's price are subsidise by their services revenue. The keyword here is price. Apple still gets to keep their same margin. Basically Apple shifted the cost of macOS, cloud and other software expenses from Hardware / Product cost to Services revenue. This was stated in their 2018 investor notes.

Again, Macro's point isn't just about 30%. There is an Anti-Competitive, Anti Trust play here. Of course those two words have difference definition to quite literally everyone, and especially different from a US and EU stand point.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#116

Post by tobr »

The AppStore is not good for finding apps. You can’t even filter or sort the search on any kind of metadata. So you try to type some keywords in and you get irrelevant adware (after the ads for other adware). While I occasionally try apps or games I discover through the AppStore, nearly every app that actually matters to me I’ve learned about through other channels.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#117

Post by [deleted] »

ksec wrote: post #96

At D5 [1], What did Steve & Bill Gate admire in the other? Bill: Steve’s taste, Steve: Microsoft’s ability to partner . Apple is basically repeating a lot of their early mistakes. Some of those lessons Steve took it to heart when he returns to Apple from NeXT. >This isn’t about the 30%, or the 15%,.......It’s about what Apple’s leadership thinks of us and our work. There is also another point Marco didn't mention. It…

[deleted]

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#118

Post by xchaotic »

„ Without our apps, the iPhone has little value to most of its customers today.” I call bs on that. I can’t be the only person who uses stock apple email and very few 3rd party apps. Yes it’s even better with those apps, but even on its own, a nicely working phone with email and good camera provides a lot of value and utility for me. The 3rd party apps only add like 5% for me.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#119

Post by ksec »

015a wrote: post #71
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #63

It's a two-way street. Despite selling less than 20% [1] of smartphones across the world, its App Store accounts for over 64% [2] of app revenue. Apple and its developers somehow built an App Store that people are willing to spend more money on. If it's purely thanks to developers, why isn't there more revenue on Google's Play Store? [1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... [2] https://sens…

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I've suspected that this often-quoted disparity has something to do with China, and how Apple still controls iOS app distribution in China but the Play Store has much lower usage. So, you get weird aggregates because the total revenue numbers don't include the Chinese specific Android app stores (which, by the way, are insane; Huawei takes a 50% commission on game sales in their's, and…

Somewhat true. There are 300M iPhone install base in China, on an equal bases you can take the 30% of App Store Revenue away to compare to Google's Play Store. But generally speaking iOS user spend double the amount of money compared to Android users.

And to the OP's number, Apple has ~25% market share. Not 20%. Those numbers are shipments, not usage. which is for the 100th times meaningless in nearly all topics.

Re: Apple-Developer Relations

#120

Post by FireBeyond »

mcphage wrote: post #76
actuator wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store should be just the start. Mobile web for more than 50% of the US users is also restricted to Apple's whims. They should be forced to allow competing browser engines(not just skins on Safari engine) on the platform. If Microsoft couldn't even bundle IE on Windows, it should be possible to make an alternative browser(along with engines) for iOS.

> They should be forced to allow competing browser engines(not just skins on Safari engine) on the platform I really don't want to have multiple browsers installed on my phone & swap between them because some web app works in one browser, but not another. Mobile browsing is already pretty shitty, I don't think fragmentation will make it any better.

I'm not sure the solution to that is "so app developers are forced to make sure their app works better in 'your' browser (Safari) because that's the only choice for a large number of users".
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