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Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

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Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#191

Post by upbeat_general »

lolinder wrote: post #145
jeswin wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There shouldn't be an "Annual plan, paid monthly" option. Software vendors shouldn't be in the credit and loans business. Pay monthly for monthly plans, and pay annually once for annual plans.

Is this any different from AWS offering reserved instances? The pricing structure is the same: you pay by the month but commit to a year. Reserved instances seem perfectly fair to me: what's different here?

Context matters. Almost no pure software product has a cancellation fee. It's always a yearly cost or monthly where you can cancel anytime.

Some things like apartment leases are not only in a different context, but it's done for a clear reason. Reserved instances on AWS I'm assuming has a similar purpose but it's also in a different context and it's hopefully made very clear to the user.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#192

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

Mandatum wrote: post #189
DominikPeters wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting lots of replies from (I presume) Americans, who are used to much scammier business behavior than what I know from Germany and you describe in Australia. One related example is the pervasive practice in America of displaying a price without fees (like "resort fees" for hotels that can be +50%) and of course taxes, with the actual price only becoming apparent after additional effort is invested in the ch…

True, my views are non-American. For example when I go to a convenience store, I pay the price listed on the item. I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.

> I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.

Oblig: sales/retail taxes in the US vary city-by-city. While just like the rest of the world: US companies put their MSRP on products - but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax. That's bigger than the profit-margin on many items sold at retail - and the simplest solution is just to have everything understand that the price on a box is the pre-local-tax price. And everyone (most people? or just most people on HN...) know roughly what their local sales tax rates are anyway (mine's around 9%) and as everyone pays by card having exact change isn't an issue.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#193

Post by forgingahead »

DominikPeters wrote: post #186
Mandatum wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenuous at best, and fraudulent at worst - and I know ACCC in Australia will take a very dim view. Take the main page for instance, the one you linked - it lists monthly prices. No mention whatsoever of "annual pricing paid monthly" - it's JUST monthly mentioned. Pic: https://imgur.com/sZPfFDI When you click "See plans and pricing details" it gives you the Annual monthly and ACTUAL monthly prices. Pic: h…

You're getting lots of replies from (I presume) Americans, who are used to much scammier business behavior than what I know from Germany and you describe in Australia. One related example is the pervasive practice in America of displaying a price without fees (like "resort fees" for hotels that can be +50%) and of course taxes, with the actual price only becoming apparent after additional effort is invested in the ch…

This is precisely why it's unlikely any regulation will occur to stop this at the source. As long as American customers are happy to bend over to shady business practices by dominant American businesses, the rest of the world will keep experiencing the knock-on effects of this behaviour.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#194

Post by craftinator »

sk5t wrote: post #114
deathanatos wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first screenshot in the comment you're replying to says the price is "$52.99/mo". A reasonable person would look at that and conclude that if they purchased the product for 1 month, they would pay $52.99. But it seems (from the other, subsequent screenshots) that the actual cost Adobe would charge is $635.88. (That $52.99/mo, for a year.) It is only on subsequent screens that the bait and switch becomes visible.…

Automobile leases, apartments, and the like are listed with monthly rates, but your commitment to pay is longer than one month. What's the difference?

Yeah, the US has become quite comfortable with disgusting advertising problems. It's normal to be a shady disingenuous company here, so what's the difference if Adobe is being shady and disingenuous too?

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#195

Post by inetknght »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #192
Mandatum wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, my views are non-American. For example when I go to a convenience store, I pay the price listed on the item. I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.

> I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else. Oblig: sales/retail taxes in the US vary city-by-city. While just like the rest of the world: US companies put their MSRP on products - but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax. Th…

> but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax.

I disagree. If you want to sell something to a market then you should tailor your product to that market. That means doing some basic research about what the local taxes and laws are.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#196

Post by DominikPeters »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #192
Mandatum wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, my views are non-American. For example when I go to a convenience store, I pay the price listed on the item. I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.

> I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else. Oblig: sales/retail taxes in the US vary city-by-city. While just like the rest of the world: US companies put their MSRP on products - but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax. Th…

Lots of other things also vary city-by-city, like rent and income or business taxes. Equal MSRPs impose an unfair burden on retailers in expensive places in pretty much the same way as local sales taxes. Businesses everywhere else manage these difficulties without cognitive burden for customers.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#197

Post by upbeat_general »

Aeolun wrote: post #182
irjustin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it is "in the contract" it's not SUPER obvious that there is an early cancellation fee during the checkout process. If there was a separate box or better, a popup modal/page, that explains this, I'd give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. The problem is patterning - _a lot_ other companies monthly subscriptions don't have 50% annual cancellation fee or any cancellation fee. So this method of 'lowering the…

I dunno, if someone presents me with two options: - Annual plan, paid monthly: $50 / month - Monthly plan: $75 / month Then of course there is going to be a catch to the first one. I cannot imagine anyone being so naive they’d just assume both plans are the same aside from the price...

This comment is so tone deaf.

Tons of people will be so naive as to either not read closely, or just not know that the cheaper one comes with a catch.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#198

Post by metafunctor »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #192
Mandatum wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, my views are non-American. For example when I go to a convenience store, I pay the price listed on the item. I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.

> I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else. Oblig: sales/retail taxes in the US vary city-by-city. While just like the rest of the world: US companies put their MSRP on products - but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax. Th…

The seller decides on the price, and labels the goods accordingly. Whatever "recommended retail price" may be printed on the box is of course covered with a sticker with the actual price.

It's about consumer protection. Buyers must know exactly how much they will need to pay to purchase an item BEFORE they pay. It would be unfair to expect consumers to calculate these things.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#199

Post by codetrotter »

radicalriddler wrote: post #126
radicalriddler wrote: post #118

This has happened for years! It's not some new terrible thing. You sign up for an annual subscription, paying monthly installments. They give you the option to pay half of it out if you want to cancel, it's no different than a 12 month phone plan in places like Australia. God I hate Twitter. People on their are so used to only reading 150 characters, that it's started affecting them in their daily life, that they're…

Adding onto this. The actual shitty thing that people should be complaining about, is that the subscription auto-renews (unless I missed the checkbox) and I couldn't find a way to cancel it pre-emptively, outside of blocking it at the bank level, otherwise it signed me up for another 12 months.

Yes, this! I signed up for Creative Cloud for a year with monthly payments, but I was absolutely not prepared for the fact that if I didn’t cancel by the end of the 12 months then I would be signed up for another 12 months.

This is not how subscriptions usually work, but with Adobe it is.

With every other subscription I have ever had if I have it for say 14 months or 16 months and then want to cancel I have been free to do so.

But with Adobe when I wanted to cancel after 13 months I learned that I had automatically been committed to another 12 months and would need to pay a hefty cancellation fee.

I like the software that Adobe makes but I hate hate hate the subscription.

When I leave Adobe after my subscription ends this time, I hope to never have to sign up for their subscription again.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#200

Post by inetknght »

lolinder wrote: post #147
bobthebuilders wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck getting money from a stone!

I'm not sure what you mean, but if a debt goes to collections that ends up on your credit report. It's not like you can just ignore it forever.

> if a debt goes to collections that ends up on your credit report

Once it's on the credit report it can then be disputed.

Good luck getting a court to uphold a contract where the terms weren't clearly understood by both parties.

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