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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#191

Post by marvin »

lyschoening wrote: post #125
b112 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but, there are close to 200 vaccines. It isn't as if all vaccinations have stopped, there are other options, and panic and fear on the side of omg must vaccinate now, now,now! ? Any hint, even the slightest, that complications may be ignored, could result in untold masses refusing vaccination out of fear. So let's pause one vaccine for a few days, and see if moving ahead, or more research is required.

Who is to say that other vaccines don't have the same side-effect? That could especially be assumed of the other viral vector vaccines, so Johnson & Johnson, Sputnik and CanSino, none of which have received much scrutiny so far. Even if the mRNA vaccines are safe, we depend on J&J and AZ doses for our reopening plans in Europe. We can expect economic damage from any wait for alternative vaccine doses.

J&J uses a different adenovirus than AZ (and human rather than chimpanzee). Of course, this is now demonstrated as a potential side effect to be on the lookout for.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#193

Post by kwhitefoot »

AnthonBerg wrote: post #188
kwhitefoot wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to read the VG articles, they are much more thorough than the one linked on HN but they are in Norwegian. Google Translate does a fair job. https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mi... https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyWoy6/jakter-astrazen... A key quote from the second of those is this: Madsen har tidligere forklart at det er to nivåer å undersøke bivirkninger på: Gruppebasert, og i…

This comment should not be downvoted as it is both topical and helpful.

Thank you. I wish downvoting had to be accompanied by a reason!

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#194

Post by AnthonBerg »

Someone wrote: post #180

It’s said in many texts about this (possible) problem, but I don’t understand how serious blood clots and low levels of blood platelets can go together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platelet : “Platelets […] are a component of blood whose function […] is to react to bleeding from blood vessel injury by clumping, thereby initiating a blood clot.” So, I would expect low platelet counts to be associated with excessive…

This effect is indeed strange, and rare, and underlines the severity of the mechanism and the result.

It is mentioned and described somewhat in the Norwegian articles that are linked to. As I understood the Norwegian text, there is severe clotting in unusual places like the brain and stomach, and the blood is effectively left void of platelets. As I understand - as a layman - is that an autoimmune-related reaction causes what I would consider to be an implosion of the platelets.

This is still rare, but it will of course be investigated and we will of course figure out why this happens, and then it probably doesn’t have to happen to anyone! Maybe there’s a genetic component ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#195

Post by jdavis703 »

milkrocks wrote: post #171
jdavis703 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should also be banned and replaced with alternatives (be it safe self driving tech, public transit or biking). Car crashes are one of the top killers of young people in terms of crashes, and we’re just starting to understand the effects of air pollution on young lungs.

Or maybe stop banning things and let people make their own decisions.

If drivers were the only ones impacted, I’d agree. For example professional race car drivers have all consented to the risks, so what they do on the race track is up to them. But when cars are used for general transportation there are all kinds of negative externalities that people can’t opt out of.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#196

Post by gredrotino »

macinjosh wrote: post #168
afavour wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 cases of blood clots (and 0 confirmed deaths) in 17 million 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) They really aren't comparable. EDIT: see replies below for details about deaths connected to the clots. I take that back. But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine.

> 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) That is a hugely inflated numbers. For example, people who died in motorcycle accidents who tested positive for COVID at the time are counted in that total. It may be useful to the CDC to count that way but it is not an accurate number to show how dangerous COVID actually is. Flu death statistics are way down this year. Did the flu magically disappear this ye…

This is not necessarily the case, and based on excess mortality data if the number is off it is most likely under reported (look at the senior home reporting in NY state and the reluctance of certain states, like Flordia, to openly share this data).

In the case of the motorcycle accident: the man was in a crash and hospitalized for over a week where he died of COVID related respiratory failure. While he would not have been in the hospital had it not been for the accident, had it not been for COVID he very well may have survived his time there.

Regarding the Flu, it is way down this year precisely because of the measures that have been taken for COVID. It is less transmissible than COVID, so it stands to reason that it would die out during a time when most people are taking precautions to prevent the spread of a more transmissible virus.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#197

Post by simonh »

b112 wrote: post #42
afavour wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a real-life example of the runaway railcar switch dilemma. The train car is heading towards a crowd of millions of people and will plough through the middle of them killing many hundreds, or you can throw the switch and divert the railcar so it hits a handful of people prone to the blood clot reaction. In this situation it's not that much of a dilemma, though. It's not as if those prone to blood clots are n…

Yes, but, there are close to 200 vaccines. It isn't as if all vaccinations have stopped, there are other options, and panic and fear on the side of omg must vaccinate now, now,now! ? Any hint, even the slightest, that complications may be ignored, could result in untold masses refusing vaccination out of fear. So let's pause one vaccine for a few days, and see if moving ahead, or more research is required.

Several European countries are already finding that millions of people are refusing the AZ vaccine due to unfounded and disproven aspersions made against it by political leaders in Europe. So either way vaccine deployment gets hurt. If you suspend usage vaccinations get delayed and people wonder if there are real problems, otherwise why is it's use being suspended? If you push ahead people complain concerns aren't being taken seriously. It's lose/lose all round.

Meanwhile Britain has got on with the job and vaccinated 25 million people (including me on Monday, with AZ), and avoided the fresh waves of infections crippling Europe and flooding their hospitals at the moment.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#198

Post by hungryhobo »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #177
hungryhobo wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing 737 max has a lower crash rate than cars, do you think the ban was warranted?

Again, that's comparing apples and oranges. Not to mention, what's the cost-adjusted safety comparison look like, given that a 737 costs more than a thousand cars! Your whataboutism needs some work.

That's exactly my point, it's an apple to orange comparison, I've intentionally left out other dimensions of comparison and cherry picked something that's similar, which is exactly what original post was doing between contraceptive and the vaccines

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#200

Post by jcranmer »

macinjosh wrote: post #168
afavour wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 cases of blood clots (and 0 confirmed deaths) in 17 million 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) They really aren't comparable. EDIT: see replies below for details about deaths connected to the clots. I take that back. But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine.

> 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) That is a hugely inflated numbers. For example, people who died in motorcycle accidents who tested positive for COVID at the time are counted in that total. It may be useful to the CDC to count that way but it is not an accurate number to show how dangerous COVID actually is. Flu death statistics are way down this year. Did the flu magically disappear this ye…

This canard is still being trailed out?

Excess death counts are available, and they are even higher than the COVID death counts, suggesting that the official count may actually be an underestimate of total fatalities. However, the claim that that it is "way over stated" is not borne out by the actual statistics.

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