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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

191–200 of 674 posts

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#191

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

When I did media training years ago they told us that the media isn't there to inform. It's there to sell imprints.

And that journalists have knowledge that is a mile wide and an inch deep. Their job is to file copy to strict deadlines.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#192

It's good to get every bit of confirmation we can of this, but the "myth of polarization" has been known for a long time -- best described in Morris Fiorina's 2011 book Culture War? The Myth of a Polarized America . There is overwhelming evidence that at the end of the day, people's political and issue views are overwhelmingly bell curve-shaped. The issue is that the bell curve gets split into categories. American vo…

I had the impression, that the center is exactly the problem because it's always looking away.

Hook-theory, etc.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first describes a quasi-religious ritual in which all participants ritually affirm that they are unworthy sinners, racists. Those who believe get the satisfaction of publicly proclaiming their sin, signaling their superiority over the outsiders. Those who don’t believe have their faces rubbed in the fact that other people have the power to make them lie in public about who they are and what they believe. It shows…

> The first describes a quasi-religious ritual in which all participants ritually affirm that they are unworthy sinners, racists. Why would being racist make someone an unworthy sinner? Racism is just treating others differently based on their race. It’s not weird or evil. In fact, it’s perfectly normal and even understandable. Humans have probably always separated themselves into groups. Even chimpanzees do it. I th…

> Why would being racist make someone an unworthy sinner? Racism is just treating others differently based on their race. It’s not weird or evil. In fact, it’s perfectly normal and even understandable. Humans have probably always separated themselves into groups. Even chimpanzees do it. I think that’s what the trainings try to get at.

Chimpanzees murder. Just because primates have been doing something for millions of years doesn't make it acceptable. We have the capability to rise above our instincts and make rational decisions about who we want to be.

Treating others differently based on their race is fundamentally unethical. You're not an irredeemably broken person just because you've done something unethical in the past, but saying "well everyone does it" or "it's just natural" is just refusing personal responsibility.

Maybe some people honestly can't accept the idea that they have done something wrong, and would cling to a belief that deep down they knew was wrong if they didn't have such an "out" to preserve their view of themselves. They'ed rather double down on racism than admit they've knowingly treated people incorrectly.

For most people though, acknowledging a problem is the first step to solving it. Everyone alive today has spent the vast majority if not the entirety of their lives in a world where the idea of racial superiority has been thoroughly discredited. The emphasis on certain features like skin color over others like hair color in segregating people is an entirely learned behavior. For racism to endure to the degree it does today, enormous numbers of people must have actively chosen to learn this behavior and refused to change. It hardly seems unreasonable to conclude that for many, telling them that something is normal and natural robs them of their imperative to change.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#194
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wish I had a way to block Twitter from my life completely. I don't even use it, but I wish for an AdBlock-like tool that would: - block Twitter content in news articles - block links to articles with Twitter content from ever being shown to me in the first place Most news articles provide little value to my life anyway, but I don't think I've ever read an article referencing Twitter quotes that was worthw…

One of the absolute laziest ways to write a "news" article is the "here are a list of things people tweeted about this topic" compilation.

I see this a lot in an attempt to smear a candidate or public figure: “Here are some abhorrent Tweets from their followers”. Of course, it’s an enumeration fallacy—there’s no way of knowing whether those Tweets accurately represent the candidate’s followers or not. That said, journalists are happy to find real life followers of candidates/etc with abhorrent views, but I suppose Twitter makes it easier to create the desired spin.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#195
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or are you suggesting that unintentionally disadvantaging a group is not only not discriminating against that group, but that also it is is also excusable and needs no correction? i.e. that the consistent, albeit unintentional, disadvantaging shall continue? It depends on the policy. Is the height of a basketball hoop a policy that is unintentionally discriminating against me because I can't jump that high? Is the…

>Why is it correct for tests to attempt to discern innate ability rather than current ability? The issue was that they were testing for neither; rather, they were testing knowledge irrelevant to the thing ostensibly being tested (but specific to a class group). From Wikipedia: "For example, questions about the role of household servants or classical composers were far easier for middle-class children to answer than f…

> they were testing knowledge irrelevant to the thing ostensibly being tested

That's a good argument but it's not the argument that I was responding to:

> the grammar-school system was ostensibly universal and open to all, the entrance exams with questions predicated on a familiarity with middle-class culture naturally disadvantaged working-class students.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#196
post #155
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wish I had a way to block Twitter from my life completely. I don't even use it, but I wish for an AdBlock-like tool that would: - block Twitter content in news articles - block links to articles with Twitter content from ever being shown to me in the first place Most news articles provide little value to my life anyway, but I don't think I've ever read an article referencing Twitter quotes that was worthw…

OTOH, if you spend sufficient effort to curate your lists, you can enjoy a BETTER news feed than from major media, who even if they aren't straight-up biased, are full of their own constraints to fill airtime, not offend sponsors, etc. It takes work to filter out the noise, (& there's plenty of noise to avoid!), but one can select the actual scientists diong the research, who will link to their key findings & papers,…

I appreciate RSS for that reason. Information is opt-in.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#197
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others But then everyone is racist. Including black people. Everyone is part of this society that has systemic features tht benefit whites. So if everyone is racist, what’s the point of labeling?

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, by that definition. If you want to and are working to change or get rid of these systems, then you are not racist.

I think it’s more complicated than that based on some of the diversity books I’ve read.

For example I wasn’t even “white” until I moved to USA a few years ago. Took me 6+ years to even grok how “white” works and what it means but I’m told I was racist all along.

And yeah sure I want the system to change, but honestly I have enough work with being an immigrant without inherent rights. Hell I’m technically a visitor so I don’t even have immigration rights yet. This is not my fight to fight ... but folks say that makes me racist and privileged and how dare I.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#198
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others But then everyone is racist. Including black people. Everyone is part of this society that has systemic features tht benefit whites. So if everyone is racist, what’s the point of labeling?

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, by that definition. If you want to and are working to change or get rid of these systems, then you are not racist.

So whether you’re racist is determined by whether you are “working to change the system”? What does that mean?

If I do yes to BLM does that mean I’m not racist? What if I speak in support of BLM? Is that a blanket dispensation against being racist?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#199
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did “we lost the paperwork” turn into “well you look foreign so leave your country”?

You should have seen the despicable "Go Home" vans that were circulating for a while. And the "hostile environment" that is legally mandated homelessness (people aren't allowed to rent privately, landlords have to check with .gov for "eligibility" to rent). All those "we lost the paperwork" people are subject to that. They would have lost their jobs, gradually had their banks close the accounts (with no alternative),…

> > How did “we lost the paperwork” turn into “well you look foreign so leave your country”?

> You should have seen the despicable "Go Home" vans that were circulating for a while.

How is losing the paperwork for legal migrants comparable or even closely related to telling illegal migrants to leave?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#200

This is "centrist" propaganda. I'm also absolutely sure you'll find that 99% cross-stitch and scrapbooking content online is posted by a tiny percentage of cross-stitchers and scrapbookers. You'll also find that radical centrists (as defined by actual political positions) are an infinitesimal group, and that the vast majority of people will report their beliefs as middle of the road no matter what the actual content.…

> Yes, when the courts stop favoring women... Um, no. You already can hire whomever you want and for whatever reason you want. You just can't be blatantly sexist. Perhaps you need to step back and reassess your viewpoint because it reeks of scare mongering.

That is not my opinion. That is a way in which somebody who is an "extremist" could reasonably answer that question, and magically be converted into a centrist.

tl;dr: If you go around with a survey that asks "Are you an unreasonable extremist?" and mark everyone down who says "No" as a Brownite centrist Democrat, you're going to find a silent majority of Brownite centrist Democrats.

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