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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

171–180 of 674 posts

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#171

It's good to get every bit of confirmation we can of this, but the "myth of polarization" has been known for a long time -- best described in Morris Fiorina's 2011 book Culture War? The Myth of a Polarized America . There is overwhelming evidence that at the end of the day, people's political and issue views are overwhelmingly bell curve-shaped. The issue is that the bell curve gets split into categories. American vo…

Additionally, in politics, the "center" in discourse is usually shifted along with the Overton window.

i.e. If you're an extremely conservative government, your moderate citizens views will seem extremely liberal.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#172
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being racist isn’t the same as being evil. Just about everyone, to some extent, is racist. I don’t see how that’s an extreme claim. Humans are a social species. We have in-groups and out-groups. Often times the most salient marker for whether someone is in your group is whether they share certain phenotypes or language. There’s nothing weird about that. It’s expected. It’s our default setting. But it does lead to tre…

This is a cult like approach. The main proposition "Everyone is a racist, whether you know it or not", is an overstatement. There is no way you can tell "everyone" is a "racist", is just an aphorism with multiple interpretations. This has become the tool of identity politics and group thinking, throw and aphorism and let people fight over it. Unfortunate.

Hm. Humans are built to identify with a group, absorb culture, and be uncertain and uneasy when not in their group or their culture. That can easily lead to treating different people differently, and to the conclusion.

It's not completely true though. We usually reserve the term for active, conscious acts. Not just unconscious bias. So maybe we need a new word for that?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#173
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

Is there any real proof that these diversity sessions actually help people work in diverse environments? The way you describe this, it reads like a really, really weird cargo cult where just confessing to one's supposed racism will somehow make you more open to people of differing backgrounds. How exactly does this help?

>Is there any real proof that these diversity sessions actually help people work in diverse environments?

I'd say no for the most part.

It's mostly hypocrisy and everyone knows is theater, which creates boredom at best, and bad blood at worst.

Diversity is built organically, not through sessions.

It's like those bogus "we're a big family" pep sessions -- and then the company screws you over.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#174
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

Well that's the thing. These diversity training people do use a different definition of racism then what you are thinking of. The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others. By that definition, most white people are probably "racist". If you understand the context used when they call them…

> The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others

But then everyone is racist. Including black people. Everyone is part of this society that has systemic features tht benefit whites.

So if everyone is racist, what’s the point of labeling?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#175

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

In Orwell's Oceania, the inner and outer party made up around 10% of the population. Minitrue was a small subset of that apparatus, and developed such wonderful products as "the two minutes hate". It's not like we weren't warned.

Neil Postman wrote in 1985:

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egotism."

"Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with [indulgences]."

"As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists, who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny, “failed to take into account man’s almost infinite appetite for distractions.”

"In 1984, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that our desire will ruin us.”

-- Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#176
post #142

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

Sometimes I wish I had a way to block Twitter from my life completely. I don't even use it, but I wish for an AdBlock-like tool that would: - block Twitter content in news articles - block links to articles with Twitter content from ever being shown to me in the first place Most news articles provide little value to my life anyway, but I don't think I've ever read an article referencing Twitter quotes that was worthw…

One of the absolute laziest ways to write a "news" article is the "here are a list of things people tweeted about this topic" compilation.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#177
post #54
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

This is basically a Chinese struggle session.

I think the official term was "Maoist struggle session."

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#178
This is "centrist" propaganda. I'm also absolutely sure you'll find that 99% cross-stitch and scrapbooking content online is posted by a tiny percentage of cross-stitchers and scrapbookers.

You'll also find that radical centrists (as defined by actual political positions) are an infinitesimal group, and that the vast majority of people will report their beliefs as middle of the road no matter what the actual content. They will also report that they are middle-class, no matter what their income.

And what content-free questions:

> It concludes that unlike in the US, climate change is not a culture-war issue in the UK. In Britain, it found that 85% of voters believe climate change concerns us all. The most sceptical group were voters described as “disengaged traditionalists”, where the figure was still 76%. Meanwhile, 79% of all voters say gender equality is a sign of progress.

Does climate change "concern us all"? Yes, climate change is being used as a weapon to destroy progress and people's livelihoods.

Is gender equality a sign of progress? Yes, when the courts stop favoring women, and give me the right to choose who I want to hire regardless of whether they're a man or woman, society will have progressed.

> The research also suggested that the Covid-19 crisis had prompted an outburst of social solidarity. In February, 70% of voters agreed that “it’s everyone for themselves”, with 30% agreeing that “we look after each other”. By September, the proportion who opted for “we look after each other” had increased to 54%.

I don't even know what this question means, or how it's relevant to the thesis. I think they were searching for people who both had no loved ones, and are not just covid denialists, but not even aware that anything is even going on. Covid denialists have support networks, that's how they keep their businesses open and schedule protests. It's very difficult to phrase a question when the position that you think is the most reasonable is also a very extreme one (that covid is very dangerous and justifies extreme measures.)

> More than half (57%) reported an increased awareness of the living conditions of others, 77% feel that the pandemic has reminded us of our common humanity, and 62% feel they have the ability to change things around them – an increase of 15 points since February.

Unintelligible. And these are the entirety of the examples cited in the article.

edit: also Jo Cox supported BDS, so I guess she was an extremist, too.

edit2: missed this

> Its polling found that 73% believe hate speech is a problem, while 72% believe political correctness is an issue. Some 60% believe many are too sensitive about race, but 60% also recognise issues around “white privilege”.

- looks pretty extreme to me.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#179
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's the thing. These diversity training people do use a different definition of racism then what you are thinking of. The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others. By that definition, most white people are probably "racist". If you understand the context used when they call them…

> The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others But then everyone is racist. Including black people. Everyone is part of this society that has systemic features tht benefit whites. So if everyone is racist, what’s the point of labeling?

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, by that definition. If you want to and are working to change or get rid of these systems, then you are not racist.
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