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iOS 14 is available today

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Re: iOS 14 is available today

#191

Post by wayneftw »

threeseed wrote: post #185
wayneftw wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) I don't want to see the prompts to allow push notifications from a webapp... You wouldn't have to get them unless you proactively installed the PWA to your home screen. > 2) Generally I'd rather none of the software I use be webtech, so anything that makes it easier to deliver webtech to my phone/tablet is a step the wrong direction...so no-one can bug me about it or cajole me into using it. That's your only rea…

> You have never experienced this Actually we have. In the early days of iOS, Apple never regulated push notifications. And so I remember many apps using them as a reminder pushing notifications daily and sometimes even multiple times a day. There were also companies selling "notification space" within their apps to third parties for use as an advertising channel. It was pretty awful and it degraded the overall exper…

Actually, you misunderstood the response.

They said "In short, my UX on iOS is better without them (web notifications) even being possible".

How could they know when Apple never implemented it?

The fact that apps had unregulated push notifications and now they don't pretty much settles the debate in my favor. Apple can regulate push notifications for PWAs in all sorts of ways outside of barring them altogether, just like they did for native apps.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#192

Post by rbritton »

fakedang wrote: post #103
rbritton wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last night I did the final iOS 13 update on all of my devices. I no longer trust any iOS or OS X update at launch -- I wait several months.

I'm curious, if you don't trust iOS at launch or even several months down the line, why bother with it in the first place? Pick up an Android and join the dark side. I'm honestly baffled as to how locked-in Apple users let themselves be, even the tech-savvy ones.

Because privacy. I have no illusions that Apple’s privacy stance is permanent, but for now, they’re far superior to Google, Android, and associated vendors in that regard.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#193

Post by wayneftw »

Zippogriff wrote: post #134
wayneftw wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) I don't want to see the prompts to allow push notifications from a webapp... You wouldn't have to get them unless you proactively installed the PWA to your home screen. > 2) Generally I'd rather none of the software I use be webtech, so anything that makes it easier to deliver webtech to my phone/tablet is a step the wrong direction...so no-one can bug me about it or cajole me into using it. That's your only rea…

> Perhaps that's because you want the wrong thing for some reason. I can't really parse this but from the best sense of it I can get, I reckon the most correct response is, "no, u". [EDIT] Oh and also: > You have never experienced this, so how could you possibly know? Also, no it wouldn't. It's really incredible how often relatively straightforward conversations on HN end up veering, pointlessly, into theory of the m…

> I can't really parse this...

Allow me to make it very simple: You didn't give any reasons for your opinion. You just gave your opinion.

> ...I reckon the most correct response is, "no, u".

If you're used to that sort of argumentation, I suppose that is what you'd reckon.

> It's really incredible how often relatively straightforward conversations on HN end up veering, pointlessly, into theory of the mind and epistemology.

Apple has never enabled notifications for PWAs on iOS. Therefore, you couldn't possibly know that your "UX on iOS is better without them even being possible" because you have nothing to compare to.

What about that speaks to "theory of the mind and epistemology" in your opinion?

Perhaps you're confusing web notifications with PWA notifications. Perhaps you're thinking that Apple couldn't possibly do it any differently from Android where every website can prompt you to give notifications.

Gee, I wonder if your whole problem couldn't just be solved by letting you opt into the whole idea of PWA notifications? Then you could never turn on that switch and happily live your life without ever thinking about them again.

Somehow, you'd rather force everybody else to do it your way instead of giving them a choice and I find that to be rather deplorable.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#194

Post by fakedang »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #173
kelnos wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a manufacturer that gives you timely updates with a support duration you're happy with, and you're fine. And before you complain "it's insane that I have to do that", you've already done that: just you picked Apple. The mistake people make is in thinking of Android as some monolithic, consistent thing. It's not, and can't and won't be. Buy a Google phone, or a Samsung phone, or whatever, and stick with a manufac…

> The mistake people make is in thinking of Android as some monolithic, consistent thing. Well, the Android branding is all over the place. No one thinks “I’m going to switch to Samsung”. It’s “I’m going to switch to Android”. Android phones are commodity devices.

I do say I'll switch to Samsung or a One Plus if I'm looking for a higher end, an OPPO or Vivo if I'm going for a lower end, or a Redmi or Honor, if I'm going for a midrange resilient phone.

I use a Blackberry for my black box phone, so I don't really care about security on my Android stuff - Google or China can have all that's in there. What I do care about are having options, and Android does provide me a lot of options. For instance, my first Android phone was a Samsung and while the phone was awesome and lasted a solid 4 years, I hated the customer service offered. Then thought I'd have a cheaper Android, so decided to go with a Motorola. Then once I joined the workforce, it was the BB + Honor combo, because Honors are so much resilient. Just because Android has so much more options doesn't mean they are commodity devices, unless you look at phones as a status symbol, which is a thinking I've honestly grown out of.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#195

Post by applecrazy »

chooseaname wrote: post #91
knolan wrote: post #3

No sign of it here yet. I’m curious if it fixed some of the unpleasant behaviour and bugs that were never fixed in iOS 13. Things like Mail not displaying new emails properly unless your went out and back into the mailbox. The keyboard autocorrecting to random names aggressively and inserting capital letters if you dare move the cursor. All new behaviours introduced with iOS 13 that adversely affect the user experien…

That mail bug is annoying. I don't get why Apple can't push their apps out to their app store and update them separately so it doesn't take an iOS update. The only reason I can think of is to force people to always stay on the latest iOS version, but that's anti-user, so surely that's not the reason. ;)

They technically are on the App Store, just not updated through that channel.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#196

Post by nodamage »

Teckla wrote: post #36
google234123 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user, please no.

As long as you could approve or reject push notifications on a site by site basis, what is the problem here?

I've seen an increasing trend of sites showing modal popups immediately upon page load asking for permission to send notifications. This type of behavior is extremely obnoxious.

Being able to approve or reject notifications is not enough - we should take the additional step of not allowing sites to show these kinds of prompts unless the user specifically clicked a button and asked for it.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#197

Post by wayneftw »

Ashanmaril wrote: post #104
Zippogriff wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I don't want to see the prompts to allow push notifications from a webapp, nor to have to go disable them. I just never want them. 2) Generally I'd rather none of the software I use be webtech, so anything that makes it easier to deliver webtech to my phone/tablet is a step the wrong direction. Yes I'm willing to have less total software in exchange. The point is that I don't want apps that are or will be native,…

Web notifications are one of the worst things to happen to the modern web. Ever look at your grandma's Samsung phone? She's probably got 5 spam ads saying you won a contest or to claim some offer. Most users are conditioned to just accept whatever popups are shoved in their faces, ESPECIALLY since the EU laws a few years ago that forced every website to tell about their cookies policy. And hell, I've accidentally acc…

We're talking about PWA notifications, not pure web notifications.

The P in PWA comes from the word progressive. So, we don't need to enable every native feature immediately for every website.

People who want PWA notifications would be absolutely fine with not being able to send them until the user added the PWA to their home screen and opted into notifications.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#198

Post by CamperBob2 »

knolan wrote: post #3

No sign of it here yet. I’m curious if it fixed some of the unpleasant behaviour and bugs that were never fixed in iOS 13. Things like Mail not displaying new emails properly unless your went out and back into the mailbox. The keyboard autocorrecting to random names aggressively and inserting capital letters if you dare move the cursor. All new behaviours introduced with iOS 13 that adversely affect the user experien…

Or not being able to permanently disable the stupid handwriting input 'feature' when switching to landscape mode.

Pro tip, Apple: when a Google search for "disable $FEATURE_XYZ" returns over one million hits, it's time to walk it back, and possibly fire the product manager pour encourager les autres.

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#199

Post by andrekandre »

dylan604 wrote: post #132
rafaelturk wrote: post #17

Now run and update your app... we're caught by surprise on this release

I've seen this a lot lately. I'm not an app developer, so forgive the ignorance. What was the surprise? The actual release date? Does Apple normally send out an email to devs saying you have 1 week until it drops? From my experience with Apple, the GM was always a closely held secret and divulging knowledge was grounds for loss of Apple privileges. Just curious what is so different this time.

apple never gives us the release day, so we are always biting nails

when fatal bugs, or issues are reported, there is little communication from apple... alot people/companies depend on what apple is doing here

hisotrically, they announce new stuff, then ios is released about 1 week later (conveyed at the annnouncement)

this time, it was one day.

alot of us had apps already in testing and preparation, but depending on what features you might have used, some bugs occur that have either no workaround of nasty workarounds, and we need the GM release to confirm certain things and how to proceed

i cant talk about the issues i have faced in my job, but this 1 day notice has not gone off well

-- as an aside --

personally, my feelings towards apple has soured very much, and anecdotally, many friends who work in industry who have to deal with apple (apps, app store, safari etc) have soured on them too

when people say "apple doesnt care about developers" i can understand thier feelings somewhat...

Re: iOS 14 is available today

#200

Post by CamperBob2 »

nikanj wrote: post #168
knolan wrote: post #3

No sign of it here yet. I’m curious if it fixed some of the unpleasant behaviour and bugs that were never fixed in iOS 13. Things like Mail not displaying new emails properly unless your went out and back into the mailbox. The keyboard autocorrecting to random names aggressively and inserting capital letters if you dare move the cursor. All new behaviours introduced with iOS 13 that adversely affect the user experien…

My favourite is Mail telling me "Message has not been downloaded from the server". And no way to tell it to download it.

Or my favorite, "1 Unsent Message." Yeah, thanks guys, that's super informative.
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