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Rents are dropping across the US

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191–200 of 400 posts

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#191
post #104

> She and her roommate signed a lease on a two-bedroom apartment in the West Village for $4,995 a month Holy cow, I knew NY rent way expensive, but wow I didn't know it was that bad. Growing up in upstate NY, you could be a nice family ready home in my suburban home town for ~100K. Of course there were houses that went up to ~150K or even 200K, but 100K was standard for purchasing a home. I even though that that was…

To be fair, if I had to pick a neighborhood in NYC in terms of "how expensive it is to get a two bedroom apartment" then the West Village would be at or near the top of the list.

Don't get me wrong, NYC is expensive, but its very difficult to think of a more expensive area of the city to live in.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware. Renewables and electric cars are on a tear. Don't force density when you can use technology instead to lower your impact. It's clear the city is too expensive for many, and folks are going to filter out of urban cores until a density equilibrium is reached. Do you care if I live in the middle of nowhere in the mountains if all of my power is clean solar, our cars are electric, I work from home, and pay for…

We don’t have enough lithium on the planet for everybody to have their own electric car. Just because something is on paper sustainable, doesn’t make it actually sustainable.

That's wildly incorrect. Proven reserves of lithium only are a few decades of consumption, because why would you keep looking and measuring now when you already have so much available?

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#193
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't live in downtown SF because they need to, they already live there because they want to. Maybe downtown SF is just the lesser of two evils between SF and SV because of job location. Maybe they really want to be with their extended family in a suburb of Cleveland.

> Maybe they really want to be with their extended family in a suburb of Cleveland. This especially made me laugh because the VP of Eng at one of my Silicon Valley startups was from Cleveland and would often joke "I escaped a prison sentence by leaving Cleveland" and "The place is so polluted the river caught on fire, TWICE!".

That fire was in 1969. This is kind of like moving to SF because it used to have hippies.

I've been to Cleveland and it's actually a pretty solid place to live. I would argue you could have a far better life there with a $50k house than slavishly working for the rest of your life for a multi-million dollar tiny home in a giant sprawled out suburb.

FWIW I never met a single person in the bay area that didn't want to live basically anywhere else, but couldn't because of work (and access to work). I'm sure they're there but I never met them. Networking is going to be terrible during COVID too, which is arguably the best thing about being down there for a startup anyways.

I just think people are going to be amazed at how much that place hollows out as more tech companies decide to permanently go remote. I loved the weather, but I also like not having to work as much to put a roof over my head. I'm sure that resonates with a lot of other people too, that don't think retiring early surrounded by friends and family is a prison sentence.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#194
post #39
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that a lot of those trendy bars, restaurants, etc. may no longer exist if a lot of people who can afford to move away. A lot of the elements of city life in say NYC or Boston in the 1990s were a lot different from today. But, to your point, yeah a return to a more gritty and bohemian version of urban life would be appealing to some.

Personally I miss the dives, the open mic nights, the hole-in-the-wall restaurants that have been slowly getting replaced with gleaming Ikea-fever-dream "fast-casual artisan eateries" and the like. (If I'm being honest the latter have a certain appeal to me too, but I think it's a travesty when they supplant things that are irreplaceably more human)

This is what most people are referring to when they say “cosmopolitan.”

Where you have the perfect stew composed of a high mixture of all walks of life, from economic background, educational background, ethnic background, cultural background, etc..., and until someone figures out how to combat the change, it always seems to be overrun by gentrification.

I’ve seen a few higher reaching accounts over the past couple of years saying, “When you make improvements to your community, always be aware the actions you take may attract gentrification which will decimate the community you’re trying to build and price you out in the process. You could be improving yourself right out of your house or business. Build that community but beware of gentrification.”

I’ve seen gentrification happen in a couple of places, but one of the most stark examples has to have been Portland, OR.

I know multiple people who have moved from California to Portland like 4 years ago. When visiting, they raved about how amazing all of the small little shops were, how green everything was, all of the amazing little restaurants, how many people walk/biked everywhere, the lack pretentiousness, how everyone preferred dive bars, etc...

Many of those same people who have moved here now variously complain about the people who walk/bike, drive or take ubers the mile or so to work, complain about the lack of parking, don’t shop at any of the little stores, drive 15 minutes out of the city to shop at big box stores, and seem enraged they cant find clubs that only allow in “beautiful people.”

I know Portland isn’t the only place to experience this and to be clear, I’m not trying to shame them, but I’ll never understand how someone can like a place so much, they go out of their way to hunt for a new job, pick up and move to an entirely new city, and then complain or refuse to do the things which it takes to maintain that which made you fall in love with a place.

I think many of the people which cause gentrification, they see the cosmopolitan nature of a place, love it, and then want to make it exactly like the place they left.

Prior to coming back to Portland, I lived on a Caribbean island for a couple years for a work project, and I saw first hand how adamant they are at pushing back against newcomers trying to change the culture which make the place so beautiful in the first place. I think they understand on a gut level how attempts to make something more like some other place has ripple effects and those usually lead to economics which price out the good stuff.

The worst part is, when we see a place that has a vibrant community, with open mic nights, and cute little shops with locals who own the shops etc..., those communities spent decades making their own little spaces in their image and people move in and just don’t adapt.

I mean some people just prefer living a suburban existence, and that’s OK. Plenty of people are proud to be rural, plenty of people who are proud to be cosmopolitan, why not just be proud to prefer suburbs. We all have different preferences, we don’t need to force cosmopolitan areas to lose all resemblance of itself when there’s already a place tailor made for people who prefer strip malls where parking lots seem to always be 90% unoccupied.

Sorry for the ramble, I’ve just seen gentrification decimate cosmopolitan communities that spent decades building them up and force lifetime old residents and businesses out time and time again, only for the new residents to complain about the very cosmopolitanism they loved in the first place and before ya know it, its looks shockingly like the suburb which is a mere minutes away.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe just don't lead with "I'm from the big city, hate guns, and love abortion" when introducing yourself to your new neighbors.

Well, no one would actually lead with that, but I've met people in the Bay that have lead with "What are your pronouns?" and "How do you identify?", either of which may make for an awkward (or worse) first impression in a lot of other places.

In much of the country, the first question you are asked is "What church do you go to?", and responding "I don't" is going to make you a pariah.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#196
post #3

"across the US" as in "in expensive coastal cities." I don't know the broader trend but, anecdotally, I know people who have/are in the process of moving out of cities for more rural locations. One couple I know just moved out of a major Northeast city to the coast of Maine. Others are seriously considering vacating NYC etc. With many tech industry jobs mostly WFH until the end of the year and the future in general u…

I live in a very rural valley in North Central Washington State and this is definitely the case. There are only a handful of homes for sales right now and they are going pending sometimes in hours and usually selling in cash. This never used to happen.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wages from jobs start to increase in an area, some housing development happens, rents go up on those new developments to cover costs but also because their renters can afford it, repeat? The increased wages (more jobs + better jobs) leads directly to both new housing development AND increased demand for whatever housing currently exists. The latter is more impactful for higher prices than the former. > but also bec…

>>> I can afford to buy milk that costs 10x as it does right now, but I wouldn't actually pay that because I have no reason to when cheap milk still exists. You can afford to not drink milk but you can't afford to not have a roof over your head. Becoming homeless is not an option so people get pushed to living in older smaller flat away from the city or sharing with strangers.

Okay fine, I could say, "I could afford to pay 2x for groceries in general, but I won't, because why would I when I don't have to?"

Same principle for rent. It's not quite about what people can afford, it's about what they feel they have to pay (and how much they can reasonably afford is one factor in that).

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe not so good for those who were especially attached to...the vibrant city life I think it's good for those people too, because urban housing prices will also go down as people move away. It could become more affordable to have that vibrant city life alongside the others who actually want to be there and don't just have to be there. I'd personally be really excited to see Austin's skyrocketing growth and gentri…

Just a word of caution as someone who has went from D.C. to small town: It can also be not so good if you come with your previous political beliefs. Big coastal city politics are _very_ unpopular in smaller towns (not here to discuss the merits, just stating the reality). You won't make very many friends. Smaller towns don't have the same issues big cities do, so naturally it will require a different approach and way…

Everyone thinks you live in a small town if you move to the Midwest. I moved to Des Moines and my aunt was talking about how her grandma knew everyone in her town like I could relate to it. The Des Moines metro area has a population of 650k people. And half of those people have trump derangement syndrome just as badly as rich coastal people.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids change mindset. Kids love yards. They love the little creek that runs past. I love the safety. Small neighborhood, we all know each other and look out for the kids that run around playing.

I bought into this mindset, and regret it. That's what you do when you have kids, move to the 'burbs, right? We moved from a big city to suburban hell a few years after having a kid. In those first years, we took our kid to museums, parks, playgrounds, etc. all over the city. Now there is jack shit to do in the suburb we're in except going to the mall, cannot walk anywhere, have to use the car 100% of the time to eve…

I think walkable towns (as opposed to sprawling suburbs) offer a better balance. We moved from SF to Albany/Berkeley with a 1 year old and it feels like the best of both worlds. There’s a lot to do and see, great parks, interesting culture, it’s very walkable, and you can have a yard/garden, friendly neighbors, kids playing in the streets, etc.

Downsides are that it’s almost as expensive as the city (you can get a bit more space for your money, but not a lot more) and closer proximity to “urban” issues like grit, crime, homelessness, traffic that you can be more insulated from in the sprawl.

Re: Rents are dropping across the US

#200
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids change mindset. Kids love yards. They love the little creek that runs past. I love the safety. Small neighborhood, we all know each other and look out for the kids that run around playing.

The problem with suburbs is they don’t allow kids to get any amount of independence because they must be driven everywhere by their parents. I moved from a US suburb to a small city in Europe when I was 12 and it was liberating. I could suddenly walk or bike downtown alone.

suburbs are different then rural? I grew up in a suburb and walked and rode my bike everywhere. ran around the streets with friends and got into plenty of trouble skateboarding around town. population between 20-30k.
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