Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

elle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 261 posts

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#191

Post by DoreenMichele »

maxcan wrote: post #184
DoreenMichele wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what message does this send to girls I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion. I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me. This has proven to be a huge barrier to effective networking and a huge ba…

> I think the larger problem is the degree to which men refuse to engage women in a substantive intellectual fashion. First statement is a generalization across 50% of the population. > I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I've been here over a decade. It continues to be the case that most men don't really want to talk much with me unless they are hitting on me. Second comment is decrying the fact that the…

In general, I’m pretty confident that the gender of a commenter on HN has no effect on how I reply to them

You and I are talking about two different things.

But I said I was stepping away from this conversation, so I will leave it that.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#192

Post by BubRoss »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #132
BubRoss wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a gay poor woman, get over yourself. If you don't have a blog, start one. If you have one, write off topic thoughts there. No one is silencing you by not engaging in whatever you want to talk about in threads about specific articles. A lack of engagement and attention doesn't make you a victim. I don't go into a retirement home trying to sell skateboards and get upset because I think the world owes me something.

I have many blogs. I don't think my remarks are in any way off topic. They illustrate the problem space with a specific example. I choose to use myself as the example because then I'm not doxxing other people, in essence. I can say as much or as little as I feel comfortable saying about myself. You're ability to participate here is facilitated by the nearly 11 years I have spent here. I did a lot of laying of the gro…

You can say whatever you want, but you are conflating not getting the responses you want with "being silenced".

> You're ability to participate here is facilitated by the nearly 11 years I have spent here. I did a lot of laying of the groundwork to make it possible for women to open their mouths here more readily and participation by women is up.

This is an anonymous internet forum comprised of tech stories and random nonsense. I can post here because I have an internet connection. Get over yourself.

> Maybe use that ability that I helped make possible to do something other than piss all over me.

You are not being attacked just because someone sheds some light on why you aren't getting the results you want out of posting on an internet forum and I can post here because I was able to think of a user name and password.

Try an experiment where you post anonymously and see if it actually changes the way people respond. Hacker news is extremely charitable, which makes it a bizarre place to claim to be victimized while posting walls of text with loose connections to the story link.

Ironically you have posted around 20 times in a few hours, which isn't what I would call being silenced.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#193

Post by solidasparagus »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #159
solidasparagus wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be personal or rude - I only say this because someone said it to me once and it helped me. Your experiences in comment threads are often a reflection of what YOU write. Hostile people get hostility, humble people often get humbleness in return. Looking at this comment thread, some of the problems you mention in this comment have come up and perhaps it's worth considering whether that is due to how you…

I've spent a lot of time in therapy. If it were somehow the way I write, I would be thrilled to pieces to learn that fact and correct it. After nearly 11 years of being told things like "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog if you don't tell them" and having it suggested to me that if my gender is an issue, I should simply hide that fact, I'm pretty darn sure it's not the way I write. It's the way the world rea…

Here's what I saw: you interpreted some benign comments as hostile and responded hostilely [1][2]. Your comments feel like you are dismissing the idea that men struggle too and aren't particularly interested in the comments that disagree, but you have other comments where you are unhappy people don't go out of their way to help with your problems [3]. That rubs people wrong.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23186124 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23186314 [3] So even the best of the best that I can find are still failing to go "I know! If we care about the status of women, we should figure out some kind of path forward on helping this very talented, intelligent, educated and persistent woman in our midst who has spent over a decade proving she's absolutely not some kind of man-hating feminazi."

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#194

Post by dontbenebby »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #186
dontbenebby wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question to most people on this forum are: would you really be ok if your daughter was best friends with a sex worker? Everybody says "of course!" in theory... but in reality I think it falls apart. Lots of blurred moral lines. I have more respect for a sex worker than someone who builds unconstitutional mass surveillance tools. At least most sex work is legal . I think the only "blurred moral line" wrt sex work…

> but firmly disagreeing with folks they personally know. That's what I'm trying to poke at here in these comments. It's almost as if you do not support sex work/aren't ok with the theory of having it in your household, you're the enemy. You aren't cool, you're behind the curve, and you need to work on yourself to get your views more in line with the rest of the more liberal folk. That's how it reads to me anyway.

Well to be frank, you do seem rigid in your thinking. For example, I pointed you at a noted libertarian think tank earlier in the thread, and you basically ignored my post and continue to describe being for the decriminalization of sex work as a "liberal" mindset.

Most political scientists reject the left right dichotomy altogether and use a "political compass" instead. You seem to be posting from the "authoritarian right" quadrant:

https://www.politicalcompass.org

Maybe if you adjusted your attitudes based on data, rather than insist your views are right because they are your views, you'd feel less uncool or "behind the curve".

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#195

Post by justwalt »

michaelbrave wrote: post #79
_1qd4 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The message this sends to girls is that if you’re pretty, this is the easiest way to make a lot of money. It damages the work of people who have spent decades trying to get women to be valued for things other than their bodies.

I once heard something from someone I never want to agree with but it was a decent point. If intelligence is part of the biological lottery and we value it as an employer for all the advantages it could bring your business, then it's fair to think that someone who is attractive has won a similar genetic lottery and it could bring similar benefits to your business. It's something I want to disagree with, except I can…

I think it’s a good point, and not one I’d considered. But there’s a large lead lead time required to hone intelligence in school or by other means that it doesn’t account for.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#196

Post by MuffinFlavored »

dontbenebby wrote: post #194
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but firmly disagreeing with folks they personally know. That's what I'm trying to poke at here in these comments. It's almost as if you do not support sex work/aren't ok with the theory of having it in your household, you're the enemy. You aren't cool, you're behind the curve, and you need to work on yourself to get your views more in line with the rest of the more liberal folk. That's how it reads to me anyway.

Well to be frank, you do seem rigid in your thinking. For example, I pointed you at a noted libertarian think tank earlier in the thread, and you basically ignored my post and continue to describe being for the decriminalization of sex work as a "liberal" mindset. Most political scientists reject the left right dichotomy altogether and use a "political compass" instead. You seem to be posting from the "authoritarian…

I just don't get how you can't abstract away the fact that:

1. the right have their political compass point to Christianity, guns, less government, anti-homosexuality, anti-abortion

2. the left have their compass point to redistributing wealth from the rich to the poor for social programs through taxes, support for transgenders, democratic socialism, etc.

I just feel like the 'compass' thing is saying what is already obvious in a different fashion. Am I missing something?

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#197

Post by null0pointer »

ausbah wrote: post #31

I am all for letting people do what they like with their bodies, but if people are trying to makes ends meet and they believe the only way of doing so is via selling pictures of their bodies - I think society has another massive moral failing on its hands and this probably an unrefined opinion, but I feel like firing a worker for running a NSFW OnlyFans account (or similar) would, if not should, run agrounds for sexu…

> I feel like firing a worker for running a NSFW OnlyFans account (or similar) would, if not should, run agrounds for sexual harassment or unlawful termination.

I don't think it should be considered unlawful termination. Someones behaviour outside work definitely has an impact on the business they're a part of. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, SW has a very real stigma attached to it that could hurt the business reputation. That's a risk the business must take into account. It's like if someone were to attend white supremacist rallies on the weekends. It may not directly affect their ability to perform their role but I suspect we'd agree that it's justified if a business terminated someone for that reason.

Reputation is one aspect, but another aspect from a business perspective that I haven't seen discussed too much is the effect it could have on coworkers' performance. Say a woman has an OnlyFans and somehow her male colleagues find out. It would be at least a little bit distracting for them and could cause their productivity to drop. This is again a liability the business has to consider.

I'm not saying the stigma or termination is _right_ or _just_ in this case but it's just the reality of the world we live in and it will take generations to change that.

EDIT: To add a little bit about the sexual harassment aspect. I'm not sure where I fall on this. Say a woman works a side job as a stripper and one of her colleagues accidentally visits the strip club where she works. I would say it's not sexual harassment to visit the club the first time when they are unaware she works there. However if they were to solicit a private dance from her then I would consider that sexual harassment. I'm not sure exactly how that relates to viewing someones photos online accidentally vs paying for their only fans but I think it's somewhat similar. And what about repeatedly visiting the club/public photos? Visiting the club again probably is harassment depending on whether or not she is working that night but viewing the photos again probably not if she's not aware of it. It's a pretty large grey area with this part and it's difficult to form a solid opinion or even a rule without assessing things case-by-case.

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#198

Post by randyrand »

mydongle wrote: post #120
cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But what message does this send to girls who are not considered attractive enough or just don't want to do this kind of work? Here's where the real damage gets done - women flock to onlyfans as they find it to be an easy way to sell their looks / body for money. They initially get interest and some (or a lot) of money. More beautiful girls join onlyfans, subscribers change and now you're left with yesterday's onlyfa…

Imagine being a kid today and school bullies finding your mother's old OnlyFans pictures.

Imagine going to summer camp on money your mom raised from sexwork!

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#199

Post by randyrand »

ausbah wrote: post #65
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Selling nudes is the epitome of bodily autonomy, if they want to sell nudes, they should be allowed to because they own their own body.

again, that's not what I'm saying. if someone wants to sell nudes, go for it. however I see an issue in having someone who had no desire to do so, but feels compelled to so just to get by

Do you feel the same way about bodily autonomy when people choose to do hard labour?

Re: OnlyFans, influencers, and the politics of selling nudes during a pandemic

#200

Post by senectus1 »

mydongle wrote: post #62

As a guy, I'm cool with this kind of stuff. But what message does this send to girls who are not considered attractive enough or just don't want to do this kind of work? The message is that all the study, work, and effort to work in a meaningful career is a freaking joke, when all it takes is to be born a certain way and make huge amounts of money selling your body. On the other hand, we have a generation of young ma…

there is also the law of escalation to consider, to get more hits, to stand out above others, these people will perform increasingly more debase or dangerous actions and poses.

I'm not for wholesale censorship but somehow we need to find a way to stop the pressure of anonymous crowd escalation pressure.

Post reply on HN