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Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

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Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#191

Post by [deleted] »

bamboozled wrote: post #187
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #5

With all these provisions: if you've decided it would be a good idea to do, why not do it now? If it's a good idea now, it's going to be twice as good of an idea in three days. And it's going to be four times as good of an idea in six. Etc. Over and over again the organs of governments announce decisions that would be a good idea today that don't come into effect until a few days from now. Which means that the harm d…

I’m going to say it’s not effect immediately because it was severely impact people who are already in transit ? I also think that while the case rate is on the up there, people were being much more careful then in other countries and everyone was wearing masks. I think the mask and hand sanitiser thing helps. Japan seems to be making a rather large number of masks domestically (tens of millions) and has secured 600 m…

[deleted]

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#192

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #177
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control measures are supposed to take place on an inconsistent, fragmented basis - American states have significant independent sovereignty.

This is a cross-state issue. Unless we close state borders, inept handling of the outbreak by one state endangers the rest.

[deleted]

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#193

Post by tanilama »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #146
hkmurakami wrote: post #142

I looked into additional entry ban countries since other posters here seemed to wonder about non-US countries. "As of March 27th Foreigners who have been in the following countries in the prior 14 days: Iceland, Ireland, [EDIT]Andorra, Italy, Iran, Estonia, Austria, Netherlands, San Marino, Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Slovenia, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Vatican, France, Belgium, Portugal, Malta, Monaco, Lichtenstein,…

I’m a bit surprised they are letting people from China in at all. Wouldn’t a blanket ban like they are doing with the USA just be easier and more reliable to implement?

Japan had invalidated all travel visas given to China.

It is a ban, just not in name.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#194

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

vkou wrote: post #177
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control measures are supposed to take place on an inconsistent, fragmented basis - American states have significant independent sovereignty.

This is a cross-state issue. Unless we close state borders, inept handling of the outbreak by one state endangers the rest.

There's no option available with zero danger. The question is how we want to weigh reducing the danger against compromising our values, and state sovereignty is a very important American value.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#195

Post by woadwarrior01 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #62
gruez wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's probably the answer. Some amount of heads-up is owed to Japanese nationals. Why not ban foreigners immediately, then ban nationals a few days later?

Can they ban Japanese citizens from entering the country? It would be against Charter rights (what people in the US may call constitutional rights) here in Canada. I would be surprised if it would be different in Japan. Regardless, if they ban foreigners, it may become a moot point. With not enough people travelling to and from, flights get cancelled and people get stranded, unless the government provides evacuation…

India did this two weeks ago, with a 48 hour notice and I was quite furious about it. Closing borders to foreign nationals is one thing, but closing borders to one’s own citizens is violating a fundamental right. I had my brother and mother visiting me and had to rush them to the airport and get them on the next flight back to India to ensure they get back home before the deadline.

Furthermore, the announcement was made by the minister of health on Twitter and hours later an undated announcement appeared on their website. As unprofessional as it gets. Decisions like these are usually made by the Ministry of external affairs, whose twitter account I was following in anticipation of something like this.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#196

Post by rsynnott »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #88
vkou wrote: post #20

My only question is: "Why hasn't the world done this two weeks ago?" The US is failing to test on a massive scale, and the outbreak has been growing exponentially, week after week. Control measures are being taken, but on an inconsistent, fragmented basis.

Control measures are supposed to take place on an inconsistent, fragmented basis - American states have significant independent sovereignty.

What they don't have, though, are significant resources. A US state might have ideas on how to deal with coronavirus, but it would struggle to pay for it without significant federal aid, so would need to wait on the federal government. They're in a very different situation to, say, an EU country, where nearly all revenue goes to the member state, not the EU.

As an example, Ireland and Alabama have about the same population. Alabama's revenues are about $10bn per year. Ireland's revenues are about 80bn EUR (90bn $) per year.

A couple of weeks ago, Ireland announced a shutdown of everything but essential businesses, with a package of financial supports (chiefly paying minimum wage to everyone put out of work, plus supplementing up to 450 euro per week of the salaries of temporarily laid off workers where the employer continues to pay them) which will cost ~4bn over a 12 week period. In addition, it made extra resources available to the health service social services and so on which may come out costing about 3bn. And the government has signalled that this is really only the start; more billions will be required. In practice, this will be paid for in the short term by issuing debt.

Alabama, by contrast, couldn't do this sort of ~full shutdown without federal support; at a cost of $8bn it would be almost its entire annual revenue, and US states have very limited means of raising debt. US states really had to wait for the federal government to move before they could take serious measures (or else risk total economic devastation).

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#197

Post by petre »

cm2187 wrote: post #81
briandear wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the virus care about those groups? Either close the border or don’t. A family member can carry the virus end just as easily as a tourist. If the reasons for closing it are to prevent the spread, then having a bunch or exceptions defeats the purpose.

If it is small numbers, you can test for symptoms on arrival. The problem is leaving people in impossible situations abroad, overstaying their visa, not having the means to pay for accommodations (particularly if hotels close), etc.

You've got asymptomatic super spreades just like in the case of SARS. The impossible situations abroad could be solved through the embassy. My country is flying in citizens from abroad in military planes.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#198

Post by chrischen »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #150
brigandish wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm reading the actual study too. It proves nothing which is why they conclude with: > We recommend a more compre- hensive intervention study to accurately estimate the pro- tective effect of face masks for preventing influenza virus transmission on long-distance flights. accurately being the operative word. > Just because you can't limit transmission all day does not mean that you should not try at all. I have…

> I have not suggested not to try, only to do things that actually work and are evidence based. Would you suggest wearing an amulet? They wear those in Asia too. They have a modern version in the shops in Japan, I forget its name but it's a little bag of something you wear round your neck that they claim prevents flu transmission. Ironically, this is probably how we got into this mess in the first place, because some…

Bill gates was recently talking on TV about how the virus could have mutated from anywhere... there's also swine flu, bird flu, mad cow disease, yet Jewish and Muslim people don't go around blaming Mexican/American people for their swine consumption sins (at least they shouldn't).

Blaming it on the fact that Chinese people ate Bat meat is as bit culturally prejudicial as calling it the Chinese virus.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#199

Post by darkteflon »

bouncycastle wrote: post #57
needle0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore. Tokyo is already [edit: entered the hockey-stick part of] an exponential trajectory as of around 5 days ago. https://stopcovid19.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/en Every press conference ending with Koike (Tokyo governor) or Abe (PM) babbling along with no material countermeasures being announced has been making me feel all the more dreadful. They needed to have already shut down everything long ago. We will be joinin…

I am currently in Japan and I can tell you it's like nothing happened. Today is especially a nice sunny day and the park I'm at is crowded with people enjoying their annual Hanami picnics. I am being told that since people are wearing masks then it should be OK. Although it looks like the majority aren't wearing them, probably because they are impossible to buy now. We will find out the results after 2 weeks I guess.

I’m also in Japan. I’m shocked at how complacent people have been. It’s like city after city worldwide, people know what’s coming down the tracks but think it doesn’t apply to them. If we dodge this bullet it will be an absolute miracle.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#200

Post by seanmcdirmid »

chrischen wrote: post #198
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have not suggested not to try, only to do things that actually work and are evidence based. Would you suggest wearing an amulet? They wear those in Asia too. They have a modern version in the shops in Japan, I forget its name but it's a little bag of something you wear round your neck that they claim prevents flu transmission. Ironically, this is probably how we got into this mess in the first place, because some…

Bill gates was recently talking on TV about how the virus could have mutated from anywhere... there's also swine flu, bird flu, mad cow disease, yet Jewish and Muslim people don't go around blaming Mexican/American people for their swine consumption sins (at least they shouldn't). Blaming it on the fact that Chinese people ate Bat meat is as bit culturally prejudicial as calling it the Chinese virus.

Chinese medicine has a lot of costs for little if any benefits. Disease from live animals is just one of them, but then their is the medical resources wasted on not really cures, hospital profiteering, and not to mention causing entire species to become endangered or even extinct. Peer review and control study the stuff that works and call it normal medicine, the rest of the folk cures might as well be homeopathy.

Blame Mao for calling this junk Chinese medicine in the first place, before he pushed forward the concept to make up for a lack of real medical resources, it was all just a bunch of disparate folk cures in and around the country.

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