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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#191

Post by dumbfoundded »

koheripbal wrote: post #181
dumbfoundded wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of business, I would frame being an asshole as doing things that benefit yourself at the expense of others. Not being an asshole is doing things that benefit yourself and others. Let's say you sell some Saas tool. You're an asshole if you try to sell to anyone even if you think it won't help them. You're not an asshole if you truly believe your service will benefit your customers. You're an idiot if yo…

What if they are acting in the interests of the company? Is that "others" or "themselves"?

It doesn't matter. The point is the same either way. If you screw other people to get value for yourself it's a short term play. From office politics to corporate agreements, you should avoid the temptation to fuck others for your gain. It will probably hurt you in the long term.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#192

Post by dumbfoundded »

eloisant wrote: post #4
jariel wrote: post #2

I don't see any evidence to support the assertion unfortunately :) Also, the huge difference between emotional/perceptive aggression, and actual aggression. There are loud, crude people who like to push for a fair deal, or who are not aggressive terms. There are 'nice', cunning manipulative people who seek excessive terms. There are actually truly nice people, who push for assertive terms, not realising how far they…

Indeed: "So many people are straight assholes in business. Especially the more you climb the ladder." This sentence alone contradicts the title...

Not necessarily, but good point. I think many people become assholes once they get anywhere to protect what they have. The risk equation flips once you've "made it". People optimize for minimizing loss rather than maximizing for expected value.

If you're going for maximizing ev, I believe my thoughts hold true.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#194

Post by Ericson2314 »

airstrike wrote: post #159
Ericson2314 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am American? I am saying that as an American, one that works in America, and from my subjective experience working in b2b and consulting jobs, the business culture around me is full of contractual bullshit.

Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced. It's a gross generalization. Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America?

I don't know whether it's exclusive. I never claimed that.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#195

Post by chinesempire »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #155
chinesempire wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money doesn't disappear though and I'm sure the Bush family is still doing well

I've heard that the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. That doesn't mean you should be irrational though. Or if you do, understand that it's a short play. Rationality generally wins.

An assholes can be completely rational, become incredibly rich and still be an asshole.

It doesn't mean being an asshole it's the best strategy to become rich, it isn't enough to become one and generally I think being good decent human beings is much better for society and for themselves, but the numbers shows that very rich people are usually not among the best people in this world.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#196

Post by joshspankit »

tunesmith wrote: post #165
bradlys wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exactly. 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. I don't know - man. I've worked at a lot of places and this doesn't seem to be a common thing. It could be I've just worked at a lot of bad places but still. Asking for more isn't enough. It has to be the threat of leaving in order to get them to give more. At which point - the advice now for managers is, if they're threatening to leave unless you pay more the…

I've always thought a "threat" of leaving is a meaningless concept. It's either a bluff or it isn't. Most straightforward way to handle it is to find another offer that you will legitimately take if you don't get a sufficient salary bump, and communicate that there aren't any hard feelings, you just need what the new employer will pay you. If your manager refuses, you move, and if he bumps your salary or counteroffer…

(Citation needed) I read recently that shopping for an offer, leveraging it for a raise, and then staying was actually the wrong move. It essentially started a countdown to them letting you go.*

* If you’re indispensable, the rules may not apply to you

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#197

Post by superhuzza »

nhumrich wrote: post #110
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Most of the billionaires are assholes and/or criminals with a couple of noteworthy exceptions. So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle but it won't get you all the way to the top of the foodchain. So this is solid advice, but unfortunately the role models are exactly those people that didn't follow this sort of advice. Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Apple, Google and Facebook all would not have bee…

Wait.. are you saying bill gates is an asshole?

I wouldn't classify him as an asshole, but he definitely wasn't always the nicest guy:

https://www.gq.com/story/young-bill-gates-was-an-angry-offic...

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#198

Post by dboreham »

seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

I don't think this trick works. Also if he was a lawyer wouldn't this get him disbarred? Any chance it was just a screwup?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#199

Post by tunesmith »

joshspankit wrote: post #196
tunesmith wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought a "threat" of leaving is a meaningless concept. It's either a bluff or it isn't. Most straightforward way to handle it is to find another offer that you will legitimately take if you don't get a sufficient salary bump, and communicate that there aren't any hard feelings, you just need what the new employer will pay you. If your manager refuses, you move, and if he bumps your salary or counteroffer…

(Citation needed) I read recently that shopping for an offer, leveraging it for a raise, and then staying was actually the wrong move. It essentially started a countdown to them letting you go.* * If you’re indispensable, the rules may not apply to you

Yeah, as a rule of thumb. Ultimately it's all about leverage over time. If you're temporarily indispensable and now more expensive, but still replaceable for cheaper in the medium term, that's not a great situation for you to be in. On the other hand, if you really do have that other offer, you have a signal that that might be what you're worth in the open market. And if everyone starts getting more expensive, then employers simply have to adjust over time.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#200

Post by kevin_nisbet »

dboreham wrote: post #198
seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

I don't think this trick works. Also if he was a lawyer wouldn't this get him disbarred? Any chance it was just a screwup?

I was thinking the same thing, it's the type of thing that probably should be reported to the relevant bar. I don't know if it would get him disbarred, but there might be other disciplinary actions they can take if proven or it happens constantly.
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