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Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

latimes.com

191–200 of 236 posts

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely can't challenge someone's personal experience with statistics, but something about this line of argument still troubles me. I've lost a handful of close friends to car accidents. If survivorship grants standing, then I'm for doing almost anything to reduce the tens of thousands of US road deaths each year. Survivors have been angry at safety tech before, but we generally ignore them. I've known people…

> If the worst 10% have most of the accidents, then even a car that makes us safer than the mean driver could still make 90% of us less safe. We really want a car that makes us safer than our percentile of drivers. The standard shouldn't really vary per-person. If it's as good as a 50th percentile driver, it's good enough. If it's as good as a 20th percentile driver, that's also probably fine. You're right not to tou…

> 50th percentile driver, it's good enough.

The problem is if there's any correlation with safe driving and early adoption, a median solution could also lower overall road safety.

For example, teenagers are generally more dangerous drivers than most, safety actually peaks per mile around 60 years old. 60 year olds are more likely to be at peak earning, more able to afford the latest car features.

You're probably right at 20℅ though? This all depends on the curve.

And there's a herd immunity, once most people are driverless, you can probably be less strict as roads become less hazardous overall.

We'd honestly probably make the biggest dent tomorrow by just finding the worst ten percent of drivers and giving them free uber/lyft for life. That would probably save us money as a society, money we could use on driverless tech.

Those aren't teenagers. Judging anecdotally from my time as an attorney, those are serially unemployed middle aged males with revoked licenses who somehow still own an old heavy truck and drive it on the sly with a bottle of something in the glove box.

If you read through case law that profile is weirdly common.

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is if an AI fails to handle a certain situation then it will fail every single time. With humans there is a random element and a small fraction end up failing.

Then it's not an AI but just complicated if-statements; if it was more like a real AI then it would learn from the experience. The core premise of AI is that it's learning and improving all the time, not that it does the exact same thing every time.

you don't want that either, because you want to quality control the changes to behaviour. see for example first generation Forza drivatars, that learned from other online player unconstrained and became insufferable assholes

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#193

Fire truck driver here: People crash into parked fire trucks and ambulances and cop cars all the damn time . That's why we park the Big Red Truck at an angle behind the accident -- so that when the 2-ton car crashes into the 30-ton truck, the car will bounce off and the people behind the truck (us) won't be injured. I don't disagree that Tesla's software is partly to blame here, but the null experiment also has a lou…

>People crash into parked fire trucks and ambulances and cop cars all the damn time.

Autopilot is supposed to be safer than humans, not equivalent to the worst drivers.

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#194
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only highlights how incredibly dumb these autopilots are. They’re incredibly diligent but completely fail at the necessary skill of understanding . What is the point of any of this if the car with all of its sensors knowingly plows into a stationary red 30-ton obstacle. It’s something that a 4 year old human would understand instantly as an object to be avoided at all cost. I really think folks don’t realize how c…

This is completely ridiculous. Adults drive into stationary objects all the time. 4 year olds walk into stationary objects all the time. As far as I'm concerned, there is only one criterion that matters when evaluating self driving cars: is it better than human drivers? The fact that we are still discussing this _one_ accident that happened _a year ago_ indicates to me that the answer is a resounding yes.

>The fact that we are still discussing this _one_ accident that happened _a year ago_ indicates to me that the answer is a resounding yes.

It takes a long time to do an investigation. This is one of a number of incidents. You should try actually reading facts instead of Elon's Twitter.

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#195
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going at 30-40mph in the right lane on a 4-lane all empty highway, when a gentleman flies at 60-70mph and hits us right behind, goes 360 turn with us and we hit the wall. Everyone survived without any medical incident (other than that I do panic and respectfully avoid those fliers now-a-days). Relevant because: - I hope my sprinter (size of mini truck, with upfittings) had an autopilot in the front/rear to spee…

This... sounds like it’s on you. If this is in the US, the “flier” is going the normal speed of the road, and you’re driving dangerously slowly. It’s hard to tell that something directly in front of you is approaching. It’s just not something our brains are good at, compared to detecting lateral movement. Especially when it’s so unexpected. One of the first things they tell you in motorcycle safety class is that “con…

But... regardless how fast the speed limit is, you should never expect the road ahead to be clear! A Sprinter is a huge vehicle, if you don't see that ahead of you, you must be severly distracted...

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#196
The Tesla damage control astro-turfing is out in full force.

Between the surveillance state they've built and their complete disregard for safety, Silicon Valley will eventually be forced to atone for this from the public at large. Make sure you're on the right side of history.

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#197
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This... sounds like it’s on you. If this is in the US, the “flier” is going the normal speed of the road, and you’re driving dangerously slowly. It’s hard to tell that something directly in front of you is approaching. It’s just not something our brains are good at, compared to detecting lateral movement. Especially when it’s so unexpected. One of the first things they tell you in motorcycle safety class is that “con…

There is no such thing as dangerously slowly - the fault lies with people that aren’t leaving enough room to take evasive action given their speed.

Many state roads post minimum speeds as well as maximum speeds (usually it's 40 or 45 mph, where the maximum is 65mph or 70mph), because there is in fact such a thing as driving dangerously slowly.

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In EU you've usually got an entire always empty "emergency stop" lane on the right side.

These are getting removed in the UK to be opened as an extra lane, with overhead sings warning you to get out of it if there's a stranded vehicle.

This is currently being argued in court... There's a good chance the plans will be reversed.

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In EU you've usually got an entire always empty "emergency stop" lane on the right side.

These are getting removed in the UK to be opened as an extra lane, with overhead sings warning you to get out of it if there's a stranded vehicle.

Not always successfully https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-495679...

Re: Tesla’s Autopilot found partly to blame for 2018 crash on the 405

#200

Fire truck driver here: People crash into parked fire trucks and ambulances and cop cars all the damn time . That's why we park the Big Red Truck at an angle behind the accident -- so that when the 2-ton car crashes into the 30-ton truck, the car will bounce off and the people behind the truck (us) won't be injured. I don't disagree that Tesla's software is partly to blame here, but the null experiment also has a lou…

The difference is if an AI fails to handle a certain situation then it will fail every single time. With humans there is a random element and a small fraction end up failing.

In practice Tesla's thing only seems to have crashed into a fire truck a couple of times against I imagine a large number of misses.
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