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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#191

Post by kelnos »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #178
mattlondon wrote: post #129

It is certainly holding me back at the moment. I have allocated off-street parking under my apartment that is actually owned by us as part of the lease, but I doubt the building management will let me install a charger, and I don't think the law in the UK means I can force them to let me. In London there are a few public chargers dotted around, but they are fairly infrequent. I don't have any data but it feels like t…

I've seen a few listings where EV charging parking spots are listed as a perk. You might be surprised how willingly your landlord is keen to go with you paying to upgrade their building.

Many people might think it's ridiculous to have to pay to have an expensive piece of infrastructure installed that isn't theirs to keep once they move away.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#192

Post by ryanmercer »

ummonk wrote: post #136
ryanmercer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? It takes me less than 2 minutes to fill up my tank and pay, now you want me to sit 1-4 hours at a fast charger a week twiddling my thumbs? Never mind the fact a Tesla Model 3 starts at my annual salary.

I think it works if the fast charger is at e.g. a shopping center where you can grab dinner or shop while the car charges.

I'm at the grocery less than 10 minutes from the time I park my car til the time I start my car to leave. Aside from Church, work and my gyms (good luck getting a CF affiliate that barely keeps his doors open to install EV chargers in the parking lot of the half of a warehouse he leases and I don't see a chain gym in a small strip small that barely has adequate parking adding them to encourage people to loiter longer) I don't particularly go anywhere other than my apartment.

There are tons of us in this scenario that would have to go waste our free time sitting around at some business, running our cars for heating or air conditioning, while we charge one or more times a week.

The only way you ever get more than a token percentage of homeowners to switch to EVs is make it where you pull up to a building, a robot arm removes your batteries, slides new ones in, and you pull away 30 seconds later.

I know 1 person that owns an EV, he has a Tesla. Everyone made fun of him when he bought it, and still does months later. It looks like Tesla has two locations in all of Indianapolis with 8 super chargers at one and 12 at the other. 2 locations for 361 square miles.

The only place he goes regularly where he can charge it is his attached garage where he had a charger installed. I've only seen a few random business with a few generic (non fast-charging) charging stations around Indy with the exception of the EV smart-car looking cars in some of the hipster neighborhoods that you pay a monthly fee to use and have to return them to a handful of charging locations.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#193

Post by s0rce »

whalesalad wrote: post #181
trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

This is my hangup too, and it crosses over into the craze around building high density housing in California. I don’t want high density housing. I don’t think anyone does. I want a yard for my dogs to play, for my wife to nurture the garden she has always wanted, for fruit trees, a garage where I can work on my car, etc... We have so much land all around this country and no one is using it.

Unless you live in a very small community the downside of this is horrible traffic.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#194

Post by neogodless »

DataGata wrote: post #183
neogodless wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

Why will public chargers be slow? We should assume that those who provide public charging services (the gas stations of the future) will be trying to optimize throughput + convenience store sales. DC fast chargers currently get you 40 miles in ten minutes[1] (that sucks!) so your extra 20 miles gets you an extra 5 minute wait. Presumably that wait can be "limited" by getting your shopping done or grabbing a bite to e…

I think your example/link illustrates the point.

> These stations are expensive (up to $100,000) and require more power than your house, so you’ll never have one of these in your garage.

In other words, most chargers are not going to be "the best." Especially ones in less affluent neighborhoods, within a short drive (or on the way) of wherever you happen to be. Maybe it's a 10 minute round trip for a 5 minute wait (assuming no line) to charge up for and make up the extra 20 miles you need.

Realistically there are best case and worst case scenarios in our future. When chargers are all as fast and convenient as gas stations, the problem pretty much goes away. Anyone that could buy an ICE car and get to the gas station when they needed to could also have a 200+ mile EV and get to (really fast) chargers when they need. If that doesn't happen (and until it does) there will be plenty of people that cannot switch to an EV without adding out-of-the-way trips to their lives, and having long wait times while they charge on less-than-the-best chargers.

As I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread, forcing "shopping" or "dining out" to be a part of fueling your car is unnecessary coupling. It sounds natural, because gas stations are almost always convenience stores. Personally, I rarely eat out (especially alone!), prefer to never set foot in a convenience store, and my spouse does the majority of the food shopping. My charging time would be as equally wasted as my gasoline fill-up time.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#195

Post by roel_v »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #43
Finnucane wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a guy with a Tesla around the corner from me, who does this (cable out the 2nd floor window), and he does park on the street. Not sure what he does if he can't get a space close enough. (A neighborhood of row houses with little off-street parking) I think the car makers have to accelerate integrating solar charging into their cars. You probably wouldn't get 100% of your charge that way, but you could get enou…

I wonder what pedestrians et al. think about the cable running across the sidewalk. I don't think this solution scales well, also from an insurance perspective.

My neighbor does this as well. He does cover the cable with a piece of vinyl. I see him dicking around with his extension cord and vinyl several times a week, and then he tells me how charging EVs is totally not a problem and how convenient his car is. In the mean time I spend 5 mins every 3-4 weeks to fill my car up with diesel and I'm good for another 8-900 km. I wouldn't want an electric car today if I got one for free (well then I'd probably take it, I'm Dutch after all)

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#196

Post by egypturnash »

neogodless wrote: post #160
gok wrote: post #122

I live in a high rise apartment with three shared level 2 chargers in the garage. I would say there are ~10 EVs in the building and sharing the chargers has never been an issue. It's like shared laundry; you really only need it once a week or so for a few hours. Once it's easy to make people pay for electricity, adding lots of chargers will be a no-brainer for garage owners.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

God yes I don’t have laundry machines in my new place (there’s space for some but I gotta get my own) and walking several blocks to the laundromat on a weekly basis is A Hassle.

I am lucky in that my work fits on a laptop so I can just sit there and get stuff done while the washer and dryer run. But if I had a shitty service job it wouldn’t be money-earning time for me.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#197

Post by flyingfences »

kennywinker wrote: post #150
dtwest wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work in many low density areas (prime example is American suburbia). So your answer for those people is to make them move to a more dense area that can support such solutions. Which isn't a bad idea, but it's a much harder thing to accomplish.

Ebike/scoot to transit hub, trains to commercial areas. It’s not rocket science.

Bikes and scooters are great (provided there are safe riding lanes and trails) until there's any weather. If I have to show up at work looking presentable then biking through a downpour simply isn't an option. If there's any sort of snow or ice on the ground then biking simply isn't an option.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#198

Post by Theodores »

lonelappde wrote: post #22
bkohlmann wrote: post #17

Not exactly pertinent to "garage orphans," but i was struck by the picture featured in the article and the design choice of how electric chargers look. They seem to be an exact replica of a traditional gas nozzle. Striking to me how initial conditions matter for human perception and adoption. While EV is an entirely new technology and thus could be built from a cleanslate, the easiest way to drive adoption was to sha…

Electricity and gasoline both travel through tubes, and both are dangerous if they breach insulation. Handles are convenient for people with hands.

Quite a lot of senior citizens go for EV cars - they are not as fit and strong as your average HN reader (who seem to be the only other demographic buying EV).

So there needs to be consideration for them. Apparently it is really quite hard work plugging in if you are in the twilight years with health considerations. The more you need the mobility solution an EV offers the more likely it is that you are going to struggle putting that big charging cable in to your Nissan Leaf.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#199

Post by Eric_WVGG »

whalesalad wrote: post #181
trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

This is my hangup too, and it crosses over into the craze around building high density housing in California. I don’t want high density housing. I don’t think anyone does. I want a yard for my dogs to play, for my wife to nurture the garden she has always wanted, for fruit trees, a garage where I can work on my car, etc... We have so much land all around this country and no one is using it.

8.6 million New Yorkers humbly disagree.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#200

Post by mast »

A few years ago I lived in a fairly northern Canadian city. Most people had block heaters installed in their cars and plugged them in when the car would be sitting in the cold for more than a few hours. Otherwise, the car would be too cold to start. Most companies and apartment buildings had outlets installed in their parking lots, and at home people just ran extension cords.
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