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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#181

Post by whalesalad »

trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

This is my hangup too, and it crosses over into the craze around building high density housing in California.

I don’t want high density housing. I don’t think anyone does. I want a yard for my dogs to play, for my wife to nurture the garden she has always wanted, for fruit trees, a garage where I can work on my car, etc...

We have so much land all around this country and no one is using it.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#182

Post by Swizec »

trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

Living in a city is nice when you’re young. Here in SFBA you see lots of people living in the city and commuting to the suburbs to work at bigtech campuses. Weird huh?

But it makes sense. Population density increases convenience. I have 2 amazing corner stores on my block. The movie theatre is 2 blocks away, there’s many good bars and restaurants within a 4 block radius. Major grocery store (TJ) is 3 blocks away. And my apartment building has a wonderful very secure garage and a package concierge so nothing ever gets stolen. If I can’t find something within a walkable radius, a cheap bicycle share gets me to almost anything my heart desires within 15 minutes.

And I’m meant to trade all that for what? A yard? A garage? Needing my car every time I want to run an errand? Pfft

I remember living in Menlo Park and it was hell. Everything is so far away that you need a car just to grab something quick from the store.

Guess what I’m saying is that we should find ways to reduce the need for cars, not to make sure everyone has somewhere to park and charge theirs. I think high density housing in mixed residential/business areas is the best solution.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#183

Post by DataGata »

neogodless wrote: post #160
gok wrote: post #122

I live in a high rise apartment with three shared level 2 chargers in the garage. I would say there are ~10 EVs in the building and sharing the chargers has never been an issue. It's like shared laundry; you really only need it once a week or so for a few hours. Once it's easy to make people pay for electricity, adding lots of chargers will be a no-brainer for garage owners.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

Why will public chargers be slow? We should assume that those who provide public charging services (the gas stations of the future) will be trying to optimize throughput + convenience store sales.

DC fast chargers currently get you 40 miles in ten minutes[1] (that sucks!) so your extra 20 miles gets you an extra 5 minute wait. Presumably that wait can be "limited" by getting your shopping done or grabbing a bite to eat while you do it.

[1]https://pluginamerica.org/understanding-electric-vehicle-cha...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#184

Post by hundchenkatze »

cr0sh wrote: post #80

My question would be - does frequent short charging sessions cause issues for the battery packs? Versus longer full charging sessions? I know that lithium cells with their different chemistry are more forgiving of charging and discharging (vs NiMH, NiCd, or Lead Acid). I wonder though if that doesn't cause other effects, such as perhaps longevity issues that might cause overheating or something?

I'm not a battery expert, but I think the full charges do more damage than charging to 80% capacity or so. But I don't know if there's any difference to battery life with multiple short charges vs one long charge up to 80%.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#185

Post by kelnos »

neogodless wrote: post #145
ummonk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it works if the fast charger is at e.g. a shopping center where you can grab dinner or shop while the car charges.

Any solution that requires a certain behavior is unnecessarily coupling that behavior to transferring energy into transportation. In a world where a couple owns two EVs, and only one does the weekly grocery shopping, do they have to swap cars to get them both charged? Do they have to start eating out to charge their car? What if you use Amazon Fresh for food deliveries? Give that up; you need to charge your car. In o…

I think your point hits to the heart of it for many people's situations. You can fit car-charging into your routine if you make some very specific changes to your routine to accommodate it, and you must make possibly several hours of time for those changes every X days, or else you'll have a car with a flat battery and no quick fix that will let you complete your regular car-requiring errands.

If that errand is "go grocery shopping" or "drop a large package off at the post office", you might be fine rearranging or postponing, but if it's "go to work", you're completely screwed. There are quite a few jobs where "I can't get to work because my car's battery is dead" will get you fired.

For me, I'm privileged enough that it's simply inconvenient to put that constraint on my lifestyle (inconvenient enough that I won't buy an EV), but for many people it's a showstopper.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#186

Post by deadmetheny »

microtherion wrote: post #97
e40 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call the parking department of your local PD. They will gladly write a ticket to that Teshole. I've seen the same in my 'hood, and it's highly annoying.

Yeah, but I intend to keep living in my house for decades, and sic'ing the cops on a neighbor is a somewhat unpleasant way to introduce oneself, and sometimes a prelude to lengthy feuds. Since I've never met them, I'm still pondering the best way to address the problem. Cops, anonymous note, signed note, each have their drawbacks. So for the time being, I content myself with passive aggressive whining to third partie…

You can anonymously report this kind of stuff to the police. Whinging doesn't fix anything.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#187

Post by mattmcknight »

It seems like an opportunity to building an electrified parking garage where people can buy a powered spot. Could also sell powered street spots to municipalities in a rev share agreement. Many office buildings and apartment complexes are ramping up charging facilities with the number of EVs.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#188

Post by trilila »

whalesalad wrote: post #181
trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

This is my hangup too, and it crosses over into the craze around building high density housing in California. I don’t want high density housing. I don’t think anyone does. I want a yard for my dogs to play, for my wife to nurture the garden she has always wanted, for fruit trees, a garage where I can work on my car, etc... We have so much land all around this country and no one is using it.

Historically people placed business like buildings around town centres, as these were easy to reach. Lawyers, accountants, doctors and so on were supposed to be within walking distance. But these days this is becoming less and less practical, as everyone including back office employees, software developers, analysts, and other non customer non reach essential staff is crammed in those places. I seriously think planning should be made such way that any non essential business activity should be done outside cities. Downtown areas should be focused on face to face essential staff and the rest of the city on life focused businesses (restaurants, cinemas, and so on). The cities are planned at the moment is archaic.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#189

Post by kiba »

whalesalad wrote: post #181
trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

This is my hangup too, and it crosses over into the craze around building high density housing in California. I don’t want high density housing. I don’t think anyone does. I want a yard for my dogs to play, for my wife to nurture the garden she has always wanted, for fruit trees, a garage where I can work on my car, etc... We have so much land all around this country and no one is using it.

Why would you think no one wants high density housing.

Like, I don't want a backyard nor a garage or a car. But I am stuck with the lifestyle.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#190

Post by mattmcknight »

kelnos wrote: post #176
trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

This is somewhat orthogonal. In my building (where people generally own their condo units, though I'm renting), there's no access to charging in the building's garage. Yes, theoretically people could get the HOA to install charging stations or do something to make the situation better, but... well, there is still no way to charge an EV in my building's garage. Either the demand isn't there, or the HOA has refused to…

If they price it right, it could be revenue opportunity or net $0 amenity.
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