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Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

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Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#191

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ethbro wrote: post #163
scottLobster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's worked so well for the last 20 years. If China would open their economy to US companies in the same way the US was open to China pre-trade-war, then things could work. As it stands China makes no secret about their desire to displace the US as the world's leading superpower, they've proven time and again they'll exploit any openings we give them toward that end. They don't want win-win scenarios, they…

That's the gist of China's admission to the WTO: they would have in no way qualified in terms of transparency or free trade, but promises were made that things would change. They didn't. If Chinese products are so yellow-star-spangled awesome, then why not let their citizens choose freely between Chinese and foreign products? Free trade is a two way street.

In the case of smartphones, they do have a choice, and a lot of people still choose iPhones and some even Samsung. Hardware isn’t really an area locked down like internet services are.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#192

Post by yourbandsucks »

gpm wrote: post #170
pishpash wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some excellent gaslighting, given the evidence at hand.

The evidence at hand that China runs an incredibly protectionist economy with long standing policies like requiring tech transfer and requiring chinese control to work there? The evidence at hand that China is interested in taking power on the international stage like the belts belt and road initiative? The evidence at hand that they don't have moral qualms like the concentration camps they run? This isn't gaslightin…

Belt and road is just them being smart.

We ran the Marshall plan once upon a time, now we just spend our fortune fighting wars in backwaters.

You're gonna hate on the Chinese for doing the sort of things we should have been doing?

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#193

Post by effingwewt »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #183
yourbandsucks wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese were playing by exactly the rules we set and asked them to play by, for decades. American companies were ecstatic to outsource manufacturing someplace cheap. Only in the last couple years have people gotten upset and started calling them cheaters or whatever, retroactively. It raises some questions. Are we blaming them for our inability to socialize our gains from trade? Were we expecting them to never le…

The irony is that all these complaints about IP theft started to flare up once China started to invest heavily in R&D and started pulling ahead in certain high-tech sectors. The real fear isn't that China is stealing IP, but that it might surpass the US economically. Huawei is a perfect example of this. Their heavy investments in the development of 5G and resulting dominance are precisely what caused them to become a…

I love how you act like Huawei did nothing wrong. We don't just think they stole IPs, we don't just think Huawei are run by and for their government. The American economy is far from perfect but I seriously doubt that anyone at this point sees China's economy or level of self-built technology a threat.

Sure, most people have a bias or a slant, and it often comes out in what we write, but do you honestly think anyone who sees you are a brand new account and sees your comments here will think anything other than 'insert_country_here apologist'? And that it happens on every story critical of china? Seriously it gets old.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#194

Post by yourbandsucks »

effingwewt wrote: post #193
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that all these complaints about IP theft started to flare up once China started to invest heavily in R&D and started pulling ahead in certain high-tech sectors. The real fear isn't that China is stealing IP, but that it might surpass the US economically. Huawei is a perfect example of this. Their heavy investments in the development of 5G and resulting dominance are precisely what caused them to become a…

I love how you act like Huawei did nothing wrong. We don't just think they stole IPs, we don't just think Huawei are run by and for their government. The American economy is far from perfect but I seriously doubt that anyone at this point sees China's economy or level of self-built technology a threat. Sure, most people have a bias or a slant, and it often comes out in what we write, but do you honestly think anyone…

What IP did Huawei steal, specifically? Can you name it without googling? Scouts honor.

It's not cool to accuse people of being Chinese shills, especially people with semi-obscure Greek names that they're very much in character of.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#195

Post by ethbro »

freeflight wrote: post #188
ethbro wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, the US spies on the world... and shares info about their citizens with a number of other governments. On the other hand, the US isn't currently occupying, detaining, and requiring patriotic reeducation for an ethnic minority within its borders. I feel like an "It's already happening, and this is what you get" appraisal cuts less favorably towards China than the US.

> On the other hand, the US isn't currently occupying, detaining, and requiring patriotic reeducation for an ethnic minority within its borders. Let's just ignore that the US is still running torture black-sites to this day and droning people all over the planet often based on nothing more than metadata and questionable ML algorithms [0] because that's what "the US spying on the world" is mostly about: State-sponsore…

[flagged]

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#196

Post by [deleted] »

ethbro wrote: post #195
freeflight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, the US isn't currently occupying, detaining, and requiring patriotic reeducation for an ethnic minority within its borders. Let's just ignore that the US is still running torture black-sites to this day and droning people all over the planet often based on nothing more than metadata and questionable ML algorithms [0] because that's what "the US spying on the world" is mostly about: State-sponsore…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#197

Post by jessaustin »

mistermann wrote: post #87
ulfw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly it. The US is shooting itself in the foot. Because the message this sends to the bigger world is: don't get too successful or we will kill your business. The irony is that that is exactly what western companies blame China for.

> The US is shooting itself in the foot. This is one possible outcome. Another is that China learns to be a bit less self-serving and more cooperative with the rest of the world. > Because the message this sends to the bigger world is: don't get too successful or we will kill your business. That seems like a bit of a biased interpretation. Do you believe the US is literally trying to kill Huawei, or might it be possi…

...Alanis Morissette...

Any proposition starting with the phrase "the irony is that..." is likely to be an atrocity against the concept of irony. Irony is a property of communication, not of situations. Irony is the rhetorical quality of communicating multiple messages to multiple audiences. Irony is not "coincidence", so it would not apply to a "USA did X and China did X" situation.

However, in this case, what China is doing doesn't matter. The public communications of USA elites are heard by multiple audiences. Their subjects are meant to understand "China is dangerous; the world is dangerous; fear everything; don't question the military-industrial complex; don't question the popular news media; we should always be at war." Their fellow elites in China are meant to understand "Representative government is a sham; we are not constrained by our subjects; if we want to deprive our subjects of access to your products we will; also fuck you."

Both audiences are getting those messages loud and clear. Isn't it ironic?

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#198

Post by freeflight »

ethbro wrote: post #195
freeflight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, the US isn't currently occupying, detaining, and requiring patriotic reeducation for an ethnic minority within its borders. Let's just ignore that the US is still running torture black-sites to this day and droning people all over the planet often based on nothing more than metadata and questionable ML algorithms [0] because that's what "the US spying on the world" is mostly about: State-sponsore…

[flagged]

That's not context, those are "estimate numbers" about COVERT operations you didn't even source.

The drone numbers are even less useful because two different US administrations [0] [1] went through the effort of redefining "enemy combatant" to pretty up the "collateral damage" by drones. That's why Pakistan alone actually tallies up to over 3.400 drone victims [2].

You then compare that with 1989 Tiananmen Square and Tibet, so it is only fair to also factor in 2003 Iraq because just like China hasn't admitted any wrongdoing in Tiananmen Square, the US has yet to admit that going into Iraq was wrong.

Which counts just as much regardless of the US "not annexing Iraq", it still was an illegal war of aggression wreaking havoc on a sovereign country, killing hundreds of thousands of people, displacing millions as refugees, with the US government employing tactics like torture and abducting family members to fight an insurgency [3], destabilizing the region to this day.

And that's only Iraq, which hasn't been the only "US terrorism interventions" we've had in these past 2 decades but only one out of many.

The fact that so many people are unaware/in denial about a lot of this, only shows how effective the US government has been in hiding and legitimizing its own crimes against humanity.

And even when international bodies, like the ICC, try to investigate: The US shuts it down by sabotaging [4] any efforts at investigation and flat out threatening involved countries with sanctions [5].

So if we really want to be "realists", we have to be real about all of it, and not just cherry-pick estimated numbers to tally them up against each other.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant#Change_of_mean...

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-o...

[2] http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_prison_abuse_scandals

[4] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/15/mike-pompeo-...

[5] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45474864

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#199

Post by gpm »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #192
gpm wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence at hand that China runs an incredibly protectionist economy with long standing policies like requiring tech transfer and requiring chinese control to work there? The evidence at hand that China is interested in taking power on the international stage like the belts belt and road initiative? The evidence at hand that they don't have moral qualms like the concentration camps they run? This isn't gaslightin…

Belt and road is just them being smart. We ran the Marshall plan once upon a time, now we just spend our fortune fighting wars in backwaters. You're gonna hate on the Chinese for doing the sort of things we should have been doing?

My comment wasn't about hating or not hating China. It was about western companies having rational economic concern over depending on companies and resources under China's control.

The belt and road project in particular was not supposed to raise any negative emotions about China at all, it was meant to demonstrate that China does have an interest in expanding it's economic power, as indicated in my original comment.

To the extent that I raised moral issues with China (that was the part about concentration camps) the point was that we should expect them to not use this economic power based on some sort of principle of fairness.

I'd also be careful with the use of the word Chinese, since it applies both to the country and to the people. The vast majority of Chinese people are perfectly nice normal people, just like every other large ethnic group really.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#200

Post by gpm »

asenna wrote: post #185
gpm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully the other long term impact will be western companies realizing they can't rely on being able to continue to do business with Chinese ones. The Chinese government will be perfectly happy to pull that plug when it suits them even if the American government hadn't been.

From all of this, don't you think it's more likely long term impact is that other countries realize how dependant they are on American products?

It's not an either/or proposition, I'm sure that will happen as well.

For what it's worth, as a Canadian, we all already know how dependent we are on the US.

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