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Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

vice.com

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Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#191

Post by codyb »

maccard wrote: post #172
whatshisface wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might be trying to sell you something. How often would an unannounced visitor be unwanted vs. wanted?

Or it might be someone from a few doors down with some badly delivered mail, a courier with a parcel your partner/roommate ordered or a new neighbour introducing themselves, someone felling you theyre having a party and would appreciate you not calling the cops at 10pm. I get maybe 4 sales knocks a year, I just say not interested and close the door!

I knocked on my neighbors door with some beers to say hello when I was hanging out with nothing to do just the other day. Nice to meet new people.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#193

Post by laumars »

DanBC wrote: post #178
laumars wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a misconception that mental illness means someone who isn't capacitous. Granted that can be the case at the extreme end of the spectrum but the term is a lot broader than that.

Please read the researchers. Many people who die by suicide don't meet the criteria for mental illness at the time of their death and haven't had a history of mental ill health. https://twitter.com/AASuicidology/status/1097907434402779137 https://twitter.com/ProfLAppleby/status/939820235946971138 https://twitter.com/ProfLAppleby/status/981608114112946177 https://twitter.com/JE_Boland/status/958649913159581696 https:/…

I wasn't disagreeing with the point that not everyone who commits suicide is mentally ill. I was disagreeing with your point that all sufferers of mental illness are in a state of psychosis.

I also disagree with how you're interchanging "history of mental ill health" with "mental illness" because it's not always something one is born with.

Lastly I don't think those twitter links are the best examples of your point because they are ostensibly saying "It's not a forgone conclusion; more research is needed." Which I absolutely do agree with.

However, to get back to point, I do agree that not everyone who has suicidal thoughts, or who is suicidal, is mentally ill. I was being rather terse in my earlier post and in doing so had obviously mislead. So apologies for that.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#194

Post by jasonlotito »

mattlondon wrote: post #76
emptybits wrote: post #4

FTA: The Ontario Provincial Police say, “We can knock on someone’s door and say, ‘We’re so worried about you, can we come in and chat?’” Yikes. I understand the positive spin is the police care about the wellbeing of at-risk people with these visits. But wouldn't it also be true that anything and everything the police observe and believe as a result of such a visit could also be used against the resident or others in…

What I find weird about all of this is that people actually answer their door to unexpected & unknown visitors?! Do you also answer your phone to unexpected & unknown callers?! My rule of thumb built up over years of annoyance & bullshit is: if you don't know who it is, or aren't expecting anything, ignore it; 99.9% of the time someone unexpected/unknown on the phone or at your door are just going to be wasting your…

Considering the number of times someone has knocked on my door with information I need (hey, noticed something of yours was on/open/etc.), something I want (this was delivered mistakenly to me, here you go), or offer for assistance (Hey, it's me, a kid from the neighborhood. I'll shovel your driveway for $$), sure.

If you live in an area that regularly has people literally trying to con you door to door, that's an issue with where you live. It's not normal for many people.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#195

Post by cheez »

sgift wrote: post #18
taneq wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, without some pretty strong new protections in place there is absolutely no upside and likely a significant downside to letting them in. The police are not your friends.

This post and the article have the same problem: Thinking the way police works/seems to work in the US (always out to get you) is universal to the world while it is the exception. Police in other countries usually works out of a desire to help.

I can promise you the police in Canada work the same way.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#196

Post by cheez »

sjy wrote: post #149
coldtea wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Three Felonies A Day is an example of politics, not research, and has some rather motivated reasoning: A "sceptics" link is hardly refutation. These sites attract professional "minor detail pickers" and "technically-correct" pedants, who more often than not miss the forest for the trees. The message is not the exact number of felonies per time period, it's that people can have all kind of laws broken and given…

Well, did you read the link? The top answer puts forward a convincing case that the book fails to show that "people can have all kind of laws broken and given causes to be arrested without them knowing it." There are wrongful charges and convictions in every legal system, and contrary to the last sentence of your comment, it matters a lot whether these occur 1,000 times more or less frequently.

Fortunately, you only have to pay the low price of $20K to get wrongful charges thrown out, or $500K + years of your life for wrongful convictions.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#197

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

sgift wrote: post #31
avar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in Iceland where the police don't even carry guns I'd be very suspicious of this specific interaction. I wouldn't hesitate to talk to a police officer on the street, or chat with them if I was routinely detained at a traffic stop or whatever. But in this scenario the police are unprompted at your door and their first ask is to come into your house. If the police just want to talk to you because they'r…

> But in this scenario the police are unprompted at your door and their first ask is to come into your house. If the police just want to talk to you because they're concerned about you personally they'll just ask to talk to you in a place they wouldn't otherwise need a search warrant signed by a judge to enter. "Their first ask is to come into your house" is based on a quote Vice took out of context (and then blew up…

Police aren’t all out to get you.

But some are. Some will plant drugs on you.

The one knocking on your door now, is it a good cop or a bad cop?

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#199

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

DanBC wrote: post #115
avar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm commenting on this type of interaction with the police in general. No, police aren't all out to get you. But you'd be dumb even in Iceland not to have some basic situational awareness and consider how that interaction started out. You didn't come to them on the street, they sought you out at your home. So if the police knock on your door open up and talk to them there. If they just want to talk you you they'll be…

They're talking about your mental health and the intelligence they have -- they want to talk inside your home so your neighbours don't get to listen in.

So send a social worker / mental healthcare professional.

The police can wait outside in case they’re needed.

Police are decidedly not mental healthcare professionals.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#200

Post by chmod775 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #161
sgift wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post and the article have the same problem: Thinking the way police works/seems to work in the US (always out to get you) is universal to the world while it is the exception. Police in other countries usually works out of a desire to help.

In most of the world the police could beat you to death with video evidence and they’d get away with it. Competent, professional more or less upright police are not the worldwide or historical norm. In most of the world the police are the biggest gang. Police in the US are the very model of probity, courtesy and professionalism compared to almost every country in the Western Hemisphere, never mind African, Arab or As…

> Police in the US are the very model of probity, courtesy and professionalism compared to almost every country in the Western Hemisphere

You specified western Hemisphere, which includes only the eastmost edge of Europe, but still leaves (half) of the UK, France and also Canada and Ireland. US police is hardly going to beat those on many positive metrics.

Odd choice of geographic region for such a comparison in any case.

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