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Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

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Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#191

Post by zrail »

DoubleCribble wrote: post #149
rhizome wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of charter schools is to circumvent equal access provisions and to break teacher unions.

Or to offer programs and incentives that the unions won't agree to such as: longer academic year, longer school day, merit pay, on-call duty, at-home visits, non-traditional facility, non-traditional pedagogy, poor performance termination, etc...

I mean, sort of. Experimentation in things like that is of course possible in private schools, but so are unions. The charter system as currently implemented doesn’t do that, by and large, or if they do it’s a minor aspect. The primary effect is circumventing equal access to make a profit at public school’s expense.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#192

Post by rexpop »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #151
dahart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you pay for your own roads & police? It’s very likely you’re using some publically funded resources more than others. If you actually got your wish and paid for all of your own responsibilities, isn’t there a pretty good chance it would completely bankrupt you? Think about it and be honest about what benefits you’re actually receiving. Paying for education for all is something we could very easily afford by moving…

Based on the demographics of HN (and software in general) it is highly likely that whoever you are talking to is a net contributor by a long shot, not net recipient.

We're all net contributors. Even "the poor," who spend their lives in the jobs to which they're corralled. Dollar-for-dollar, perhaps they pay fewer individual taxes, but hour-for-hour their labor's just as constitutive of the commonwealth. Moreso, perhaps.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#193

Post by SatvikBeri »

michaelchisari wrote: post #181
SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Why do you think this hasn't happened in Europe?

My understanding is that most European colleges have entrance exams and only a fraction of people pass. And since entrance is based purely on exams, college admission is a much stronger signal than in the US.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#194

Post by rayiner »

digitaltrees wrote: post #177
SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Education has value independent of any increase in earning potential. Society benefits as members learn a wide range of things. I believe society would be better if there were periods of time throughout ones life to go back to school and learn without worrying that it is useful, practical or will lead to higher salary. Imagine in every member of society learned about John Rawls theory of justice as fairness, or how t…

Citation needed.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#195

Post by gristig »

cowpig wrote: post #168
stale2002 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or how about we give people the voluntary choice to participate, or not participate, in these efforts? That way those that prefer more expensive forms of education, can be free to do that and pay for it, and those who don't, don't have to do so.

An educated population is a public good. Particularly in a democracy.

Not everyone that is taught at college causes an educated population. Underwater basket weaving - like course cause more harm than good.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#196

Post by merpnderp »

SkyBelow wrote: post #143
llamataboot wrote: post #101

Let's scale this up huge, let everyone take part, and have all of society invest in education and reap the rewards. We can call it "public education" and even capture the public externalities of having a well-educated population!

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

"how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree" I'd say the steepest decline began about 10 years ago. We have people receiving graduate degrees who are barely functionally literate, let alone know anything of value.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#197

Post by SkyBelow »

jfk13 wrote: post #167
SkyBelow wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The investors will only offer the option when they think the combination of the student, the school, and the specific degree program will show a positive return on investment. This means that a school that does not offer the student an education that will enable them to make more money will not be considered as an option by the private investors. In theory a government agency could do the same, but I think there is e…

Is "make more money" the best criterion we can find for determining what educational paths should be encouraged and supported? It's bad enough that students are likely to be naturally drawn towards certain career choices - such as advertising technology - because of the generous pay to be found in that sector, rather than because they see an opportunity to make the world a better place. Let's not give educational ins…

>Is "make more money" the best criterion we can find for determining what educational paths should be encouraged and supported?

First, that is quite a different question than the one I was answering. When someone is asked what is the best way to eat an elephant and tries to give an answer, mentioning that people shouldn't eat elephants is a comment better directed at the person asking the original question and not the one answering.

Second, no, but we also have scholarships and such which reduce cost for those deemed having potential that isn't restricted just to making money. It would be unwise to overlook the increase in earning potential being the reason so many college students justify taking on their degree, and it would also be unwise to insist that the college experience is the path for those who want a general purpose education without a specific purpose.

Third, that figuring out how to trick more people into buying something is a more lucrative career than something that advances human society is an indictment of humanity at large. Is colleges promoting beneficial courses (based on what ever definition you go with) over lucrative ones really benefiting society when it leaves the student without the ability to earn money in a society that runs on money?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#198

Post by SkyBelow »

digitaltrees wrote: post #177
SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Education has value independent of any increase in earning potential. Society benefits as members learn a wide range of things. I believe society would be better if there were periods of time throughout ones life to go back to school and learn without worrying that it is useful, practical or will lead to higher salary. Imagine in every member of society learned about John Rawls theory of justice as fairness, or how t…

>Education has value independent of any increase in earning potential.

And it can be gained independent of college and independent of educating oneself for a career as well. It is easy for someone going to college to get both a degree in something that will allow them financial freedom in the future and to learn all sorts of topics that employers would not care about.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#199

Post by dane-pgp »

rayiner wrote: post #57
jacknews wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer of course is that society should fund education in the same way as it does roads, bridges, national parks, security, governance, and other social goods. With tax dollars.

Our roads and bridges are in shambles, while our universities are the best in the world.

Is that because millionaires are prepared to give large donations to universities (especially if their kids get a place at the university in return), while they're not so generous when it comes to funding roads and bridges which are used by poor people?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#200

Post by SkyBelow »

zjaffee wrote: post #179
SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Universal college education is still a great idea, even if it lowers the value of an individuals degree across the broader society. A world where more people can make meaningful contributions to the development of new technologies, providing healthcare, educate others, and contribute to other areas of human understanding the better the world will be for everyone (short of issues relating to capitalism itself). The ke…

>Universal college education is still a great idea, even if it lowers the value of an individuals degree across the broader society.

This is assuming the actual standards for a degree aren't lowered to achieve the goal of universal college education. That's why I bring up high school diplomas where the standards to graduate were lowered to increase the percentage of people with a degree. The end result was damage done to the degree and to the education that is needed for the degree. See the modern day nightmare of standardized testing preparation instead of education.

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