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Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

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Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#191

Post by lawnchair_larry »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

There was a YC funded company a few years ago that had a similar startup bundling shitware, and pg himself was on here defending them and claiming that users are “choosing” to install the software willingly. It’s astonishing how much one’s decision making framework is tied to their financial incentives. People find a way to rationalize anything if they’re getting paid, and they don’t even realize that they’re doing it.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#192

Post by UweSchmidt »

treis wrote: post #185
jamiek88 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism doesn’t help. There are levels and degrees of bad behavior. Facebook is rotten from the head down.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think Facebook is particularly bad. They acquire user data and sell it to anyone who wants it. They should better limit the data they collect and who they sell it to. But compared with stealing tip money or literally killing someone? It's just not nearly as bad.

Stealing is bad, but limited in scope. A number of people lost some money.

The data collection gives power to those who hold the data. Having all data on someone gives absolute power. It can be both looking at intimate data to directly manipulate or dominate a person, or apply data science to an incredible detailed corpus of data, and in the future learn things about individuals and groups that we can't even fathom.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#193

Post by treis »

lostlogin wrote: post #190
treis wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think Facebook is particularly bad. They acquire user data and sell it to anyone who wants it. They should better limit the data they collect and who they sell it to. But compared with stealing tip money or literally killing someone? It's just not nearly as bad.

What about their dubious involvement in recent elections does that bother you? > literally killing someone You’ve presumably not read about Myanmar or fbs involvement in organising genocide?

>What about their dubious involvement in recent elections does that bother

It mostly bothers because it seems like a great deal of the recent hate towards FB is because people blame them for Trump. If Clinton wins I don't think people care.

That said, yes I think FB should do a better job of "know your customer" when selling ads. Obviously they shouldn't sell ads to Russian intelligence. But it doesn't bother me all that much. For one, I don't think it had that big of an impact. For two, it's a dangerous path to go down when you start questioning if your political opponents have the right justifications for their votes.

>You’ve presumably not read about Myanmar or fbs involvement in organising genocide?

Which part of that involved a FB employee going out and literally killing someone?

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#194

Post by yoav »

gaius wrote: post #83
dwighttk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, according to the original article from techcrunch pointing out this issue there was a consent form minors had to get signed.

The BBC are reporting they signed up as a 14-year-old and there is no parental consent sought

Link: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47053656

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#195

Post by klodolph »

dave5104 wrote: post #159
klodolph wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might underestimate how seriously universities take research ethics, these days. Ever since the late 1970s or so. I doubt Facebook’s actions would have gotten past a typical university ethics board, which would be required before the study could proceed.

That's rather charitable, comparing this project by Facebook to an academic study.

Did you mean to reply to the parent comment?

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#196

Post by foobiekr »

kennyadam wrote: post #179
foobiekr wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a reasonable number of Facebook employees. Their opinions on the last year range from “don’t care/getting paid” to “everyone does it.” These are good people. They just don’t care.

You should edit that to 'These are people who don't care. It's not good.'

Both comments express this sentiment. I’m pretty judgey myself, but I’ve known these people for ten, twenty years. They are good people but even good people have blind spots.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#198

Post by Aqua »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

Software developers are human beings. This analogy may seem inadequate, but don't you also struggle to see how certain human beings are willing to physically hurt or kill other human beings? This also goes against all values and morales, yet people do it. It's just that your set of values is not the same as other people's. Our world has always been a dark, cruel place, and yet for some reason a lot of western people seem to have forgotten this very apparent fact.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#199

Post by michaelmrose »

TwoNineA wrote: post #137
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still available on Android.

Every day I am happier having switched to iPhone after being an Android fanboy for ages.

You could of course just continue not to install obvious spyware just like you presumably do on your desktop computer.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#200

Post by michaelmrose »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #144
the_snooze wrote: post #132

I've been reading a lot of comments about this, and something that always comes up is the question "why shouldn't people be able to sell their data?" I have two objections to that. First, they're almost certainly not making that deal from an informed position. Security and privacy are very complicated matters, and most people won't even realize to ask questions about data retention, aggregation, sharing, differential…

"First, they're almost certainly not making that deal from an informed position" After spending an hour reading similar comments to yours, I have to ask this question. How informed should the user be? What qualifies as an informed user? This is getting into some dangerous territory because it because implies so some sort of contract literacy. >The second issue is that MITMing all network traffic on a phone will neces…

When one facebook user messages another both users have consented to trust facebook for good or ill. The question is actually much more interesting when you consider a federated network like email.
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