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Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

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Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#181

Post by bjtitus »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #140
ardy42 wrote: post #130

Facebook has had its enterprise certificates revoked by Apple [1] https://seekingalpha.com/news/3427520-apple-banning-facebook... > "Facebook has been using their membership to distribute a data-collecting app to consumers, which is a clear breach of their agreement with Apple," Apple says. "Any developer using their enterprise certificates to distribute apps to consumers will have their certificates revoked, which i…

I find it hard to believe that Apple didn't know. I would expect any device with a in-house app installed to be reporting metadata about said app back to Apple. Comparing the number of installs of a particuler app + the distribution of IP addresses/locations where this app was installed vs that of a normal in-house Facebook app would likely show a discrepency. Reasons for the contrary (Apple could not have known) my…

Facebook has offices all over the world and employees testing with devices on home networks all over the world (not to mention developers giving builds to family and friends, potentially).

I would hardly expect Apple to be scrutinizing the install patterns of an enterprise app. Those resources would be better spent improving the App Store review process and TestFlight.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#182

Post by inetknght »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #177
inetknght wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what harm came from this app? Would you say that the current political climate has been harmful? I would. I would not only say that, but I would also say that it's come about specifically because of data collection practices which have enabled data analysis of entire populations in a way which has never been seen before. While analysis of populations is not inherently bad by itself, the outcome certainly has been,…

> Would you say that the current political climate has been harmful? I would. I would not only say that, but I would also say that it's come about specifically because of data collection practices which have enabled data analysis of entire populations in a way which has never been seen before. Seriously, look at the state of peoples finances. That's the cause. Look at the amount of money the rich have compared to tho…

You don't think the data collection policies these companies have meaningfully enabled and/or contributed to the wealth gap?

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#184

Post by johnnyfaehell »

inetknght wrote: post #182
johnnyfaehell wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you say that the current political climate has been harmful? I would. I would not only say that, but I would also say that it's come about specifically because of data collection practices which have enabled data analysis of entire populations in a way which has never been seen before. Seriously, look at the state of peoples finances. That's the cause. Look at the amount of money the rich have compared to tho…

You don't think the data collection policies these companies have meaningfully enabled and/or contributed to the wealth gap?

No... That would be banks and governments with decades of lax tax laws. This wasn't created overnight, 2008 just highlighted it.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#185

Post by treis »

jamiek88 wrote: post #167
treis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Google, MS, Instacart, Uber et al? The reality is that every major tech company does scummy stuff. There are vanishly few tech companies that don't.

Whataboutism doesn’t help. There are levels and degrees of bad behavior. Facebook is rotten from the head down.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think Facebook is particularly bad. They acquire user data and sell it to anyone who wants it. They should better limit the data they collect and who they sell it to. But compared with stealing tip money or literally killing someone? It's just not nearly as bad.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#186

Post by cmsj »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #168
bendotero wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Cambridge Analytica enough proof that harm has been done by Facebook's data collection and allowing others to access it? That's the very tip of the iceberg.

What harm came from that exactly? More people voted? Is voting harm? Just because you don't like the way someone voted doesn't make it harmful. My understanding is the entire Cambridge Analytica thing is about privacy and not actual harm from the Facebook aspect.

It was about having enough data to specifically target people with messages that would influence their vote.

At scale, such behaviour cannot possibly be good for democracy.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#187

Post by cmsj »

dwighttk wrote: post #82
gaius wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to be a fly-on-the-wall at some of their meetings when someone says “So we are going to do data collection on minors without parental consent now” and all the developers just say “great I’ll code that up straight away”. Like is there no dissent at all? Is there no one at all who says “guys this is not OK”?

I mean, according to the original article from techcrunch pointing out this issue there was a consent form minors had to get signed.

Click here to pinky-swear you asked your parents.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#188

Post by cmsj »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #144
the_snooze wrote: post #132

I've been reading a lot of comments about this, and something that always comes up is the question "why shouldn't people be able to sell their data?" I have two objections to that. First, they're almost certainly not making that deal from an informed position. Security and privacy are very complicated matters, and most people won't even realize to ask questions about data retention, aggregation, sharing, differential…

"First, they're almost certainly not making that deal from an informed position" After spending an hour reading similar comments to yours, I have to ask this question. How informed should the user be? What qualifies as an informed user? This is getting into some dangerous territory because it because implies so some sort of contract literacy. >The second issue is that MITMing all network traffic on a phone will neces…

What is "dangerous territory" about "contract literacy" when the typical Terms & Conditions for basically any app/service/website are dozens of pages of legalese?

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#189

Post by maxlybbert »

gaius wrote: post #83
dwighttk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, according to the original article from techcrunch pointing out this issue there was a consent form minors had to get signed.

The BBC are reporting they signed up as a 14-year-old and there is no parental consent sought

Facebook officially prohibits users younger than 13, mainly because US law has a lot of special requirements for children under that age ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Pr... ). I’m sure the app doesn’t have any special age-based code because if someone has a Facebook account, they’ve already told Facebook they’re 13 or older.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#190

Post by lostlogin »

treis wrote: post #185
jamiek88 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism doesn’t help. There are levels and degrees of bad behavior. Facebook is rotten from the head down.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think Facebook is particularly bad. They acquire user data and sell it to anyone who wants it. They should better limit the data they collect and who they sell it to. But compared with stealing tip money or literally killing someone? It's just not nearly as bad.

What about their dubious involvement in recent elections does that bother you?

> literally killing someone

You’ve presumably not read about Myanmar or fbs involvement in organising genocide?

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