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China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

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Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#191

Post by T-A »

stanfordkid wrote: post #172

Why do people fall for this sort of stuff so easily? There is a pattern of western governments regularly organizing subversive, extremist, headline grabbing testimonies to further foreign policy objectives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony I don't think the Chinese government is great either, but I'm pretty cognizant that the level of anti-China FUD is directly proportional to the accelerating economic…

> the level of anti-China FUD is directly proportional to the accelerating economic growth

Then it should have almost halved since 2010:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-pr...

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#192

Post by crimsonalucard »

sgustard wrote: post #175
crimsonalucard wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as atrocious as you think. The united states has its' own fair share of heinous crimes as well. I feel a lot of people have this perception of China as a Technologically powerful North Korea... Nothing can be further from the truth. China is like an asian tiger... Japan, Singapore or Taiwan.. or maybe not exactly an asian tiger, but somewhere in-between North Korea and an Asian Tiger but leaning much more cl…

While visiting, am I free to loudly denounce the government?

No you're not. Snowden wasn't allowed to denounce the government either.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#193

Post by UnFleshedOne »

XCabbage wrote: post #144
Spidler wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a policy of actively kidnapping children from immigrants and then selling them in auctions while dumping the parents on a different continent? Having a long established policy of sterilizing minorities? Or wait, was that Canada? Nothing that US would ever have as a policy, of course not.

> Having a policy of actively kidnapping children from immigrants and then selling them in auctions while dumping the parents on a different continent? I'll bite, although I have a feeling I'm about to be screamed at for being an ignorant bigot for lacking this specific piece of knowledge: what on earth this comment referring to? The claim is that the present-day US is selling children in auctions who were taken from…

OP might be referring to recent news about current administration separating children from illegal immigrants and having them (the children) defend themselves in immigration courts. Not sure about auction part.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#194

Post by ShorsHammer »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #155
PeterisP wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a major and valuable contributor to the global economy, and instrumental in providing the first world citizens with cheap consumer goods. Voters value bread and circuses above ethics or human rights of faraway people. In a democratic country, if a politician would implement impactful policies aimed to improve human rights elsewhere at the cost of local economic harm and inflation hitting their workers, then…

Other nation-states in the Asia Pacific would be perfectly willing to start taking our orders for commercial goods. No doubt the trade war with China has been, or will be, good for their industrial economies. It is not ethics however that is driving a wedge between the United States and China. It is China's efforts to solidify its power over the Asian Pacific seas (in)conveniently named the China Sea and their trade…

Can you name one with the appropriate morals for Western sensibilities?

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#195

Post by barry-cotter »

wollstonecraft wrote: post #80
emteycz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uyghurs, Falun Gong, non-communists?

Uyghurs are probably not a tissue match for Han.

Uyghurs are more or less half East Asian, half West Eurasian though ethnogenesis is long enough ago that they’re fairly thoroughly mixed. Naively you might expect they’d be half as likely to match Han. It’s probably lower than half but I’d be very surprised if it was less than a quarter. There are six loci that are important for transplant rejection or acceptance though there are hundreds of alleles for those loci[1]. And there are almost certainly more Uyghurs in “re-education camps” than any other group at the moment. If there are ten times as many Uyghurs imprisoned as everyone else combined but they’re 1/4 as likely to be a good transplant match there’ll be 2.5 times as many Uyghurs harvested.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_compl...

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#196

Post by SubiculumCode »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #194
SubiculumCode wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other nation-states in the Asia Pacific would be perfectly willing to start taking our orders for commercial goods. No doubt the trade war with China has been, or will be, good for their industrial economies. It is not ethics however that is driving a wedge between the United States and China. It is China's efforts to solidify its power over the Asian Pacific seas (in)conveniently named the China Sea and their trade…

Can you name one with the appropriate morals for Western sensibilities?

South Korea is a good example maybe of a country that was happy to become technologically advanced and wealthy without trying to dominate its neighbors, and who was willing to buy into international systems of rule and trade.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#197

Post by barry-cotter »

zachguo wrote: post #126

A good never-falsifiable story, just like those made up by people who are trying to get and maintain an asylum visa to US.

There are more transplant operations in China than are consistent with rates of organ donation. Far, far more. What’s your alternative explanation?

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#198

Post by barry-cotter »

sgt101 wrote: post #106
porpoisely wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At first look, from a Western perspective, this is 100% clear-cut morally bad. There is no such thing as a western perspective or morals. Just like there is no such thing as an asian perspective or morals. The western, just like the asian or even chinese, perspective is so vast and disparate and diverse that it is futile to pigeonhole one region into a single perspective. Case in point, the "west" encompasses every…

>The judeo and christian are morally antithetical. The basis of christ and christianity is the fundamental shift from judeo values and morals to christian ones. I have Jewish friends, they are not morally antiethical to Christian values, they are moral people who I love. Everything I know about Judaism informs me that its practioners share my morals. Please state specifically where you believe the gap between Judaic…

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/03/06/on-the-semiotics-o...

> term “Judeo-Christian” was coherent, useful, and defensible. In general, I take a very skeptical view of the term, because I think it misleads the public as to the nature of some important facts and dynamics in the history of the West.

Not the OP. The term Judaeo-Christian is dumb because it implies some kind of equality in the contribution of Jewish and Christian thought on morality and law in shaping the modern world and the world views of those living in Western society. It’s an American idea, a product of the post WWII consensus where the major religious traditions in the US had been operationally been Pritestantised[1]. In reality the contribution of specifically Jewish law or philosophy on the West rounds to zero. It’s certainly no more important than the Muslim contribution and few people talk about Abrahamic morality. Maimonides and Ibn Sina both made contributions to philosophy that are foundational, and situated from their culture. While many, many Jews have contributed to Western culture the fact that they are Jewish has no real impact on that influence. Spinoza’s philosophy shows vast intellect and voracious reading but Jewishness? Not so much.

[1]http://www.gnxp.com/new/2009/08/29/we-are-all-protestants-no...

For the book length treatment read Protestant Catholic Jew, Will Herberg

https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/P/bo36...

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#199

Post by sonnyblarney »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #155
PeterisP wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a major and valuable contributor to the global economy, and instrumental in providing the first world citizens with cheap consumer goods. Voters value bread and circuses above ethics or human rights of faraway people. In a democratic country, if a politician would implement impactful policies aimed to improve human rights elsewhere at the cost of local economic harm and inflation hitting their workers, then…

Other nation-states in the Asia Pacific would be perfectly willing to start taking our orders for commercial goods. No doubt the trade war with China has been, or will be, good for their industrial economies. It is not ethics however that is driving a wedge between the United States and China. It is China's efforts to solidify its power over the Asian Pacific seas (in)conveniently named the China Sea and their trade…

"Other nation-states in the Asia Pacific would be perfectly willing to start taking our orders for commercial goods."

They would if they could. Most other nations are nowhere near the level of sophistication of China on 'making stuff'. It's not just cheap labour, it's a myriad of other things related to it that China specializes in.

China is not trying to take over the world, they just want to be the 'superpower' in their sphere, and to be the centre of their Universe.

Which is fine in some ways, problematic in others.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#200

Post by sonnyblarney »

sgustard wrote: post #175
crimsonalucard wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as atrocious as you think. The united states has its' own fair share of heinous crimes as well. I feel a lot of people have this perception of China as a Technologically powerful North Korea... Nothing can be further from the truth. China is like an asian tiger... Japan, Singapore or Taiwan.. or maybe not exactly an asian tiger, but somewhere in-between North Korea and an Asian Tiger but leaning much more cl…

While visiting, am I free to loudly denounce the government?

No, but oddly, you can do almost anything else. Most activity in China does not feel as though it's too intruded upon by the gov.. If you don't run afoul of the party apparatus, it's not unlike many other places. I'm not justifying anything other than to say it's not a dystopia for most.
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