Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment • Hacker News Board

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#191

Post by GordonS » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 10:52 AM UTC

cco wrote: post #182

parliament32 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous just how terrible refined carbohydrates are for people. There are countless accounts of people losing weight and getting healthier by simply reducing refined sugars in their diet. It's surprising that this isn't common knowledge yet, although I guess we're fighting Big Sugar here. I field countless questions about diet on a regular basis, and honestly the #1 tip isn't about calorie reduction or low ca…

This always surprises me as cutting out refined and/or unrefined carbohydrates has no effect on my weight. The only thing that moves my weight down is reducing calories or increasing activity while maintaining the same caloric intake. I suppose it's entirely possible these people are doing the former and just don't know it.

I think that quite often reducing refined carb intake is quite likely to result in a reduction in calorie intake - when our blood sugar rises and then falls, it triggers feelings of hunger, making snacking more likely. With unrefined carbs, the GI is typically much less, resulting in a slower rise of blood sugar to a lesser peak.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#192

Post by GordonS » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 10:56 AM UTC

garenp wrote: post #172

lj3 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you eat most of the time? Meat and veggies?

Yeah - along with a lot of eggs, cheese, and nuts.

Eggs really are quite incredible - a great mix of fat, protein and micronutrients. I can eat just 2 eggs and not even think about eating again for 5-8 hours.

Note! This won't work if you have bread with your eggs, or anything else that raises your blood sugar.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#193

Post by GordonS » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #143

virtuallynathan wrote: post #56

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

I'm betting that diet was vetted by a qualified dietitian/nutrition specialist.

I've seen a qualified dietitian working for the NHS - she hadn't a clue about what kind of diet someone with blood sugar problems should eat. Unfortunately, this has been my (even more unfortunately) wide and varied experience of several NHS consultants across different specialisms - their knowledge hasn't been updated since they left medical school, and what they were taught at medical school was 20 years out of date when it was taught.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#194

Post by LocalPCGuy » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

prrls wrote: post #122

virtuallynathan wrote: post #56

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

A lot of people here are suggesting, like you, that a low-carbs diet or ketos can help your body "heal" from T2D. I just don't see why starving yourself from carbs, which is like the basis of life for your cells, is going to help. From what I gleaned here and there, T2D is more linked to fat-heavy diet, which clutters blood vessels and keeps yours cells from absorbing the insulin your body produces, thus preventing t…

Bodies can run on ketones (byproduct of breaking down fats) or glucose. I'm not sure where you got the information that T2 is related to fat heavy diet, that is not true at all. It can be related to bring fat, for to complications with obesity. It is related to glucose spikes, which causes insulin spikes, but the T2s body is insulin resistant and so sugar and insulin stay in the blood stream and can't be utilized. High sugar in the blood is the cause of most T2 chronic issues.

Also of note, a recent study has found that ingestion of cholesterol does not correlate with how much is in your blood.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#195

Post by village-idiot » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

inapis wrote: post #181

village-idiot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government: meat and saturated fat consumption is down, and we eat way more “heart healthy” whole grains and polyunsaturated seed (excuse me, “vegetable”) oils. Lots of people followed the advice, because lots of people wanted to be healthy. The advice was just garbage. I was under the impression that parents could not decline life saving treatments for…

Honestly curious, where should a layman go to for nutrition advice if they can’t rely on their government?

That’s ... really hard.

Honestly, I think self experimentation is the trick. Find someone who seems to be an expert, adopt one of their recommendations for a few weeks. Do you feel better? If yes, continue and pick a new recommendation. If no, reverse course and try something or someone else.

I personally recommend experts who both cite science, and are willing to reverse course when proven wrong.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#196

Post by village-idiot » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #137

joecool1029 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a case study of a single patient. Main takeaway: >Benign dietary ketosis resulting from restricting carbohydrates could, theoretically, cause ketoacidosis in persons with a predisposition to the condition.

That sounds very much like what they were saying. “Theoretically” is closer to “can” than it is to “cannot”.

Also, I said that it’s a risk to be managed. People are acting like I said that it’s a certainty and that not eating sugar constantly as a diabetic will kill you instantly or something.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#197

Post by diminoten » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 8:31 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #76

diminoten wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Summoned" implies it's only possible for people who know the arcane secrets, I'm not personally a fan of removing people's agency when talking about something like this.

In some cases at least consider this is like discussing the agency of a person addicted to narcotics.

Generally, no.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#198

Post by will_brown » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 8:38 PM UTC

inapis wrote: post #181

village-idiot wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government: meat and saturated fat consumption is down, and we eat way more “heart healthy” whole grains and polyunsaturated seed (excuse me, “vegetable”) oils. Lots of people followed the advice, because lots of people wanted to be healthy. The advice was just garbage. I was under the impression that parents could not decline life saving treatments for…

Honestly curious, where should a layman go to for nutrition advice if they can’t rely on their government?

You’re initial steps depend on your starting point/goals.

Are you a body builder trying to go from 10-12% body fat to 7% for competition.

Are you obese? Do you have chronic diseases or metabolic issues caused by diet?

I personally focus on ATP/krebs cycle, cellular health, dietary inflammation, liver/kidney function...I experiment and consume information mostly from athletes. I myself am a ultra runner but only started running 5 years ago and wanting to be a better runner is what got my to begging taking nutrition seriously. I was 192 4 years ago, I’ve been down as low as 133. I experiment a lot but it’s hard because I feel you must commit months to a diet to really have insight on the effects on your body combined with lifestyle. That seems to be the same conclusion as the other reply to your comment, but whereas they say give is weeks/I’d say give it months.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#199

Post by have_faith » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:45 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #139

have_faith wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only non-essential because your body has backup mechanisms for when carbs aren't available, ketosis for instance. That doesn't mean it's an ideal state to be in constantly.

That's an odd way to look at it - given we need fat and protein, I'd rather think that carbs were the 'backup' mechanism.

My subjective opinions on the matter: Ketosis only kicks in when carbs are sufficiently low, ketosis is required because protein as an energy source cannot pass the blood brain barrier and so needs to be converted to ketones before it can be utilised. This to me indicates the direction of ketosis being the backup system instead of the norm but I am not trained on the subject and definitely welcome being educated further.

Note that this doesn't effect my opinion of fat as a great energy source. I personaly eat a relatively low carb (not keto), high-ish fat, high-ish protein, moderate carb diet. I'm also very active and this seems to work for me so far.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#200

Post by nimmy » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:47 AM UTC

nimmy wrote: post #190

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm now down well over 60+lbs without having put in hardly any effort to exercise (occasional walking) - pretty stunning to me. Losing weight despite not exercising isn't surprising. Exercise, even intense cardio, burns far fewer calories than most people think. I'm about 240 lbs, 5'8", 36 years old, and according to this calculator [0], if I ran a 5k at a fast-paced 10 mph (6 minute mile), I'd only burn about 250…

I was curious to check out your source because I'm 5'8, 130 ish pounds and my 10 min mile 5k only burns a little bit less than 250 calories, which I thought wasn't a big enough calorie difference for the difference in weight. I put your stats in for an 18 minute run and it came up as 350 calories. Am I putting something in wrong?

10mph*!