Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 208 posts

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#121

Post by cowpewter »

virtuallynathan wrote: post #56

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet).

Which sounds more sustainable? Drinking 800 calories of milk and juice every day, or eating real food like steak and broccoli, or chicken with brussel sprouts, or bacon and eggs?

I am losing weight and reducing my A1c eating about 1300 calories of real food each day, and it doesn't leave me hungry at all. Keto is a very sustainable way of eating (in that you can keep doing it without misery). This "diet" looks like hell.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#122

Post by prrls »

virtuallynathan wrote: post #56

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

A lot of people here are suggesting, like you, that a low-carbs diet or ketos can help your body "heal" from T2D. I just don't see why starving yourself from carbs, which is like the basis of life for your cells, is going to help. From what I gleaned here and there, T2D is more linked to fat-heavy diet, which clutters blood vessels and keeps yours cells from absorbing the insulin your body produces, thus preventing them from "disgesting" the carbs you sending to them, resulting in diabetes. Reducing all the cholesterol in your diet will help your body "cleanse" gradually from these plaques on your blood vessels.

I'm not doctor, nor a nutrionist, but this guy makes really good and sourced videos on these subjects:

On Keto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzHLAqyO7PQ

On carbs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyOACAdvAsE

I really recommend watching them. They're clearly oriented (duh), but still quite informative.

I'm sorry, my reply is a bit rushed and not that polished, but I really wanted to reply to see if anyone has something to say about this interpretation of carbs and T2D. (And it's damn late right now where I live!)

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#123

Post by magic_beans »

debacle wrote: post #73
vertline3 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess back in the day, milk and bananas were considered an ideal food combination,

A bowl of milk with bananas and about 1/4 cup of sugar. My grandpa ate that right up until he died. Man never gained a pound.

Nothing wrong with that kind of diet for people without a genetic predisposition for diabetes (or lactose intolerance) and who are otherwise eating moderately.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#124

Post by will_brown »

village-idiot wrote: post #91
will_brown wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Far better to let parents decide, so when they get it wrong we can learn from it, and don't all get it wrong at once. The problem is the disease is growing in epidemic proportions, no one is learning from mistakes. The government got it wrong sure, but let the doctors prescribe the diet and government won’t dictate the diet only mandate following doctor prescribed treatment/diet (and this too I know has flaws). But…

Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government: meat and saturated fat consumption is down, and we eat way more “heart healthy” whole grains and polyunsaturated seed (excuse me, “vegetable”) oils. Lots of people followed the advice, because lots of people wanted to be healthy. The advice was just garbage. I was under the impression that parents could not decline life saving treatments for…

>Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government

I agree with you the old food pyramid(s) were shit and even Obama’s revised food plates are shit advice. Still I don’t know of any statistics of people actually following it and think by and large most peoples diets in the US are even worse than what the government suggestions have been/are.

As to the parental consent on treatment...Yes children die because parents decline life saving blood transfusions for their children on religious grounds. Most cases are upheld but from time to time there is intervention. In the case I referred to forced HIV treatments, the only reason that was legal for the unborn child, was because the 13 year old mother was already declared a dependent on the State. Again scary a state dependent subjected to force medical treatment for an unborn baby...but the alternative is scary too a 13 year old with hiv refusing treatment because she thought the HIV tests were “lies by the state” and having a dependent of the state give birth to another child with HIV which could have been prevented with treatment.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#125

Post by joecool1029 »

traek wrote: post #94
someone454 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dont get keto acidosis by eating low carb, that is misinformation.

Source? From my read it looks like you absolutely can. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc052709

That's a case study of a single patient. Main takeaway:

>Benign dietary ketosis resulting from restricting carbohydrates could, theoretically, cause ketoacidosis in persons with a predisposition to the condition.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#126

Post by garenp »

costcopizza wrote: post #117
garenp wrote: post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

Congrats! What fasting method do you currently use, or do you switch between the ones listed?

Nowadays I mostly just do OMAD (one-meal-a-day) or close to it (eating window is about 1-3 hours) as it's simpler. Initially some will power was needed to stop myself from snacking in the evenings, but as long as I make sure I have a fair amount of protein in that one meal, it never seems to happen now. Occasionally I'll do alternate-day if I feel 'stuffed' or had a big day of lots of calories (holidays, social events) - whatever is more convenient at the time.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#127

Post by GFischer »

costcopizza wrote: post #117
garenp wrote: post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

Congrats! What fasting method do you currently use, or do you switch between the ones listed?

I'm also interested (about to start my own diet but I hate non-varied diets). Any fasting method worked better than others?

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#128

Post by will_brown »

dmm wrote: post #109
will_brown wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well luckily the US is not a vacuum and you can see the pattern of the explosion of type 2 and other chronic conditions in other countries, even in Okinawa which used to have the best life expectancy but now is riddled with chronic diseases and type 2. It’s not the mystery you suggest.

I'm not saying it's a mystery I'm saying it's the fault of the food industry and they should be the ones forced to change.

I see. I agree the industry should change, but like alcohol/tobacco they won’t without government mandates and regulation (ie age of consumption laws; warnings; child advertising)...each one of those were lengthy hard fought battles.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#129

Post by rkiyer »

The 800 calories number indicates that this might be related to the Fasting Mimicking Diet of Valter Longo. Since actual fasting has a "scary" reputation among some patients and doctors, Valter Longo developed a 5 day fasting like protocol with severely restricted calories that appears to have similar benefits to fully fasting for 5 days. It looks like this modified version of complete fasting is gaining popularity among the medical establishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valter_Longo#Fasting_mimicking...

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-the-fasting-mimicking-d...

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#130

Post by mateuszf »

GFischer wrote: post #127
costcopizza wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats! What fasting method do you currently use, or do you switch between the ones listed?

I'm also interested (about to start my own diet but I hate non-varied diets). Any fasting method worked better than others?

I recommend this book - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1628600012/ref=dbs_a_def_r... it's written by a doctor specializing in applying fasting.
Post reply on HN