People start hating their jobs at 35 • Hacker News Board

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#191

Post by thirdsun » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

ggambetta wrote: post #69

grecy wrote: post #4

I can't stress this enough - if you're not happy with life, and you feel like you aren't moving closer to your goals and dreams, make a change!!! I realized that sitting at my desk for 30 years to pay for a house was not what I wanted to do, so I quit my job and have been driving around Africa for 2 years[1]. I dreamed for years of being a travel writer and photographer, and I am making that dream come true! I now wr…

> I can't stress this enough - if you're not happy with life, and you feel like you aren't moving closer to your goals and dreams, make a change!!! I generally agree with this feeling, but with some caveats. Change for the sake of change is at best a temporary solution. You get some excitement because of the new situation (new job, new country, new partner), but if you don't first identify what isn't working before c…

Well said. All too often those inspirational prompts to chase your dreams feel slightly too unconditional.

If everything you do is temporary, you'll never arrive anywhere.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#192

Post by stlHusker » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

bonoboTP wrote: post #67

vfc1 wrote: post #24

I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…

I feel these two are somewhat contradictory or inconsistent: > They have figured out that the majority of their work, to their surprise is not actually that important or necessary. > They have figured out that they are never going to get payed the true value of their work If their work is not that important or necessary, isn't its true value also not too high?

There is a differentiation here in important to the company vs. important to the individual.

As mentioned in other threads, as people mature they often begin to look for meaning in their work beyond pure compensation. As a software engineer, I can produce something that is of value to the company, be compensated fairly for that work but still derive no personal value from the primary results of the work because software, by nature is so ephemeral. The result is so malleable, that what was done yesterday can be scrapped today. There is little permanence. Couple this with an immature industry that actively disdains "old ideas" and it is pretty easy to get drug down into questioning what you are doing.

For those that care about what they do, this situation almost amounts to maintaining an exercise in double-think as a coping mechanism to make it through the day. But I've found that year after year it gets harder and harder to play that internal mental game.

If you are one of the unlucky few who work in an organization that actively works against personal growth and development, then the lasting second order effects of your work, especially in leadership positions (e.g. the growth and development of those around you) may not last either.

I contrast this to the mechanical / electrical engineers who are around the same age who can point to an airplane and say "I designed that part / system 20 years ago; each time I step on the aircraft, I am reminded of the value of my work."

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#193

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

nikofeyn wrote: post #91

jasonkester wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sound more like a list of things you figure out in your 20s so that you can successfully work them to your advantage in your 30s. Also, if you embrace the "no job security" part above and don't sweat your "career" at any given shop, the rest of them stop being things you need to worry about. Let the other guys stress office politics and fear for their job if they take vacation. You're the guy who knows what thi…

> Let the other guys stress office politics and fear for their job if they take vacation. You're the guy who knows what this job market is like, and that you have options. as someone currently job hunting, i feel this is overly optimistic. the job market is extremely conservative, so if you have a strange background, be prepared for the long haul. this is extremely stressful as no one seems to care where you have wor…

Hey, I mean this in no way disrespectfully, but if you want to land a job you need to show that you're following the rules. I've hired a lot of people at different places over the years so I'm going to try to help you with some unsolicited feedback.

Every comment like this on HN is an opportunity for someone desperate for talent to reach out to you. When you're job hunting make sure you use proper capitalization. Include your email in your profile. Make sure you show that yes, you're struggling, but that you also have some hope. Avoid certainty when ascribing mental state to others.

Here is how I would write your comment:

~Begins

I'm someone currently job hunting in Boston, with five years of .NET and multi-platform C++, I wonder if you have an overly optimistic view. I've found that, at least here in Boston, the job market is extremely conservative. It seems that if you have a background that's a little different you need to be prepared for the long haul. I'm finding this extremely stressful. When interviewing I find that there is little interest about where I've worked or what I've done.

Interviewers seem to care about a small, specific subset of things that they surface during the interview, and they don't seem to evaluate whether or not I can learn what they need me to learn, or how to understand what I already know. I feel like they treat my resume as some base GPA-like requirement and forget about it once the interview starts. I find myself asked shallow questions to gauge aptitude, rather than engaged in a well-tailored conversation about software and its challenges.

I know I'm venting right now because I'm having an especially hard time, but at time the difficulty I'm having makes me want to leave software. I find it hard to break through what seems to be a cliquish culture and I wish I could find a software firm that celebrated diversity.

~Ends

I hope this helps. Best of luck with your job search. I know how difficult and desperate it can feel. If you want me to review your CV or cover letter reach out. My email is in my profile.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#194

Post by mikeschmatz » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #24

I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…

They have achieved their early goals and found out that they were fakes implanted by the society. Now they are left in a vacuum surrounded by a bunch of responsibilities.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#195

Post by go_prodev » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

Contracting has been the answer for me.

Reply to me if you have:

- worked many hours overtime without any recognition or remuneration

- been caught up in office politics

- felt unsatisfied with your job

- felt like you could achieve more if the company listened to your advice

- wanted a change of role without sacrificing your career

12 years ago I started contracting in data warehousing and analytics. I've alternated between permanent and contracting over the years.

At 38 I'm contracting for a huge multinational company, working on exciting big data challenges and never been happier...it's literally my dream job.

Between my day job and side project I work around 16 hours per day, but I love what I do. Fortunately I have a supportive wife and kids.

Prior to this I managed a few teams at a big company and struggled to stay motivated.

Contracting is not for everyone, but if you are passionate about what you do and like to work hard knowing there is an end in sight, it is well remunerated and keeps you in touch with the market without the HR responsibilities.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#196

Post by untog » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122

wernsey wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, round about the time I turned 35 I stumbled upon Erik Dietrich's Defining The Corporate Hierarchy [1] blog. It cynically divides corporate workers into sociopaths at the top who step on other people to get where they are, idealists in the middle who don't realize they're being stepped on and think they'll eventually get to the top through hard work, and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning…

> and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning, do their work, and find meaning in their lives elsewhere, like family or hobbies. How do those pragmatists deal with the fact that, summing job, commute and sleep, over 2/3 of their lives is not part of the purpose?

Well that 2/3 is spend earning money that allows you to make the 1/3 better. Obviously there's a delicate balance there, but it's not as if they're wasting 2/3 of their lives. A friend of mine works 9-5 in a big corporate company and he loves life - he's paid well (or, well enough), never has to pull long nights or answer e-mails on the weekend. Gets home in time for dinner with the kids and to put them to bed.

(and can you really factor sleep in this? No matter what your state of employment everyone needs to sleep)

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#197

Post by wernsey » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #137

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning, do their work, and find meaning in their lives elsewhere, like family or hobbies. How do those pragmatists deal with the fact that, summing job, commute and sleep, over 2/3 of their lives is not part of the purpose?

Well, I look at history and my ancestors, and am grateful that merely 2/3rds of my life is not "part of my purpose". Plus I don't actually hate work, even if it's not what I would be doing of my own accord, nor would I say it's entirely bereft of purpose. It feeds my family, fairly well all things considered, and I work in a part of the industry that is about protecting people and defending them, rather than abusing…

I won't know where to find it again, but I came across an article the other day that mentioned that a big reason why modern people have midlife crises is because we live longer.

Our ancestors worked themselves to death (in the sense that they died before what we'd consider retirement age) and didn't have to worry about finding meaning outside of work.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#198

Post by mikeschmatz » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #41

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an easy thing to say when you've come out the other end carrying a bag full of survivor bias. The reality is that there's a reason people don't do this very often and it's because there are tangible benefits to things like owning a home and not worrying about how you're going to pay for food. Not to mention the medical care situation in the US, which is outright designed to help trap people in their jobs.

> the medical care situation in the US, which is outright designed to help trap people in their jobs. Absolutely! so start working on something right now to free yourself from that. I left a perfectly good first-world country and permanently moved to another one because I liked the quality of life better - you can too!

How old were you at that time? Did you have to leave any dependents behind?

I did the same thing in my 20's, now, with family and kids, a large change like that would be much harder to pull off.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#199

Post by ehnto » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #43

This seems counter intuitive to me. All through your 20s, you're working your way up through the bottom of some crappy bigco, paying your dues and getting experience under your belt so that you can jump to better jobs later. By your mid 30s, at least in our industry, you can get to a position where you can choose a nice gig at a good company, and pretty much steer your destiny as you choose. So it's surprising that y…

You make a lot of realisations about the nature of work along the way. I imagine it's less that people hate their job specifically and just that they are tired of the grind in general. You can love your job and still not want to be at it for 40 hours a week.

Re: People start hating their jobs at 35

#200

Post by Radim » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:31 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #178

Radim wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely. No "talent" would agree to waste their life in such a scenario, worrying about "being found out for not contributing to the bottom line". That's kinda what makes them a talent — almost a tautology.

I dunno, money talks

For a short while, maybe.

"Excellent talent" means a strong inner drive, it takes something like an obsession to put in the grind to get there. The feeling of contributing and creating and playfulness and attacking new frontiers is non-negotiable. You lose it, you're no longer "excellent talent".

No money can replace that (though life circumstances may force a detour — that's why it's almost a tautology, but not quite).

"Being found out for not contributing"? You know you can do better.