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Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

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Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#191

Post by cjbprime »

ashelmire wrote: post #113
_m96l wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the article, Google has over 100 engineers working on Fuchsia. If these are all "senior engineers" that "Google is trying to retain", the cost of keeping them must be at least 50 million per year. That's a lot of money to pay just for retention of people who are not producing anything of value, consuming many other resources (office space, network, hardware, perks), and deeply committed to a project that supposed…

> If these are all "senior engineers" that "Google is trying to retain", the cost of keeping them must be at least 50 million per year. Wait uh... are you saying seniors at Google make an average of $500k?

Yes -- https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ cites $250k as a "conservative" (low) estimate for a senior SWE there, and was written in 2015.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#192

Post by sharcerer »

evv wrote: post #76
mattkevan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. They don’t sell our data, they rent us out to the highest bidder. Much better.

It is much better, considering there are companies that do actually sell our data. "rent us out to the highest bidder" is the perfect description of Google and FB's business model. It's hard to imagine how either company could change course at this point, even if they wanted to.

Exactly, people lovw to give a negative spin to 'rent','bid'. I see it as an exchange of value. Data, money both serve same purpose: we give them vakue,they give back. My data helps them improve their systems, make recommendation engine etc. and they give me services in return. Making sense of vast troves of data is their main competency or of any internet service. Would YouTube be relevant without recommendations? Just open incognito mode in YouTube and find out! One thing they could do in future is maybe allow users to store their data somewhere locally,and which gets updated with new recommendations,profilinf info; but that'll involve losts of code changes, engineering challenges i suppose.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#193

Post by sharcerer »

Skylled wrote: post #54
jasonvorhe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least they're quoting and Google source with specifics instead of just relying on source code, docs and speculation.

I'll trust code over an anonymous comment any day. But maybe I'm biased. If you see speculation in a Fuchsia Friday article that you disagree with, I'm always open to intelligent discussion.

Fuschia Friday is no doubt the most comprehensive Fuschia coverage on planet right now.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#194

Post by ahartmetz »

JTbane wrote: post #110
013a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. The fact that HN doesn't follow it just speaks to the anti-Microsoft bias here. They've had the OneCore project back in 2015-2016 to unify the kernel and core OS pieces, which was a success and is now powering every Windows device out there from Xbox to the PC. They have the UWP, their unified app framework. They are also working on CShell, which is a unified UI/windowing/compositing system that will work a…

UWP is dead in the water.

10th attempt or so to kill Win32, this time for real!

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#195

Post by DeathArrow »

MayeulC wrote: post #56
jokoon wrote: post #25

Apparently it uses a micro kernel, zircon. I'm curious about this kernel, honestly making something new from the ground up doesn't seem like a good idea. I wonder how much of an advantage it was for android to use linux as a kernel, but I guess it was a gigantic advantage, which let them focus on what mattered in the development of android. Other question: any kernel/OS developer here to explain if a micro kernel mak…

> making something new from the ground up doesn't seem like a good idea. It isn't actually terribly difficult, the most difficult part being driver support. By using Linux as a base, Google gained a lot of driver support by default, among other things like a well-known base environment. > explain if a micro kernel makes his job easier or harder Well, a microkernel usually has well-defined interfaces that allow driver…

There's also Eelo: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Eelo-the-Google-less-Android-O...

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#196

Post by candiodari »

eganist wrote: post #176
technofiend wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but you know how much easier this would be for everyone if Google offered an option for users to be paid for volunteering your information to them? Have you not seen their Opinion Rewards app for Android? They do precisely that.

That's a wholly different context. In that context, you're not selling usage data, you're selling conscious opinions/preferences. More than anything, all that does is confirm the assumptions Google is already making about your tastes based on your usage. This is about valuing the usage data itself that's passively collected on the Android platform.

Is it ? Google provides free functionality, like a (pretty nice) mail client in the cloud in trade for mail usage data.

Those things go, outside of Google, for 2$/month minimum, and more often 10$ per month ...

Similar things go for Google's index of the web, phone operating system, ...

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#197

Post by candiodari »

scarface74 wrote: post #186
megy wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve got a better idea. Except that is an awful idea.

Since when was it an awful idea to sell something that the market valued enough for a company to make a profit without subsidizing the product with ads?

There are many such companies you can go to. For instance, go here: www.microsoft.com, but also www.apple.com, and so on.

Attempting to out-compete those companies has not historically been a very successful tactic. I think that's what's meant.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#198

Post by scarface74 »

candiodari wrote: post #197
scarface74 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when was it an awful idea to sell something that the market valued enough for a company to make a profit without subsidizing the product with ads?

There are many such companies you can go to. For instance, go here: www.microsoft.com, but also www.apple.com, and so on. Attempting to out-compete those companies has not historically been a very successful tactic. I think that's what's meant.

We aren’t talking about a little unknown poorly funded startup. We are talking about Google.

Even on the other end of the scale,I subscribe to Backblaze and Evernote.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#199

Post by jacksmith21006 »

kbumsik wrote: post #15

> "Switching away from Android could provide Google the opportunity to hit the reset button on any mistakes they believe they made a decade ago,". "They might be able to regain some power that they’ve ceded to device manufacturers and telecom carriers." How making a new OS achive this? What kind of problems Fuchsia could solve when Linux can’t solve? I personally hope Fuchsia would remain as an experimental project.…

Linux kernel is now over 15 million lines of code. Zircon the Fuchsia kernel is about 10k lines of code.

But also Google is taking a PoLP approach from the ground up. They have also implemented capability based security and addressing.

Really Fuchsia is an OS for today. It is time for things to move beyond Linux. Huge fan but it has now been over 25 years and was not built for the computer architecture of today.

Do hope Google also creates a CPU optimized for Fuchsia.

PoLP - Principle of Least Privilege.

Re: Project Fuchsia: Google Is Quietly Working on a Successor to Android

#200

Post by propogandist »

judge2020 wrote: post #51
epicide wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be better is the ability to pay for Google not to sell your data. However, the new problem would be making sure they aren't selling your data, anyway.

Google Contributor: https://contributor.google.com/v/marketing

'allow us to track you across the web, so we can stop showing you ads on publishers that are in our network, once you pay for this privilege'
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