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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#191

Post by occams_chainsaw »

mikeash wrote: post #182
lisper wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can I be sure that the underlying mechanism doesn't have a back door that allows anyone with access to track me all the time? Your argument is very similar to the argument advanced by the government for key escrow and other backdoors in encryption systems: this mechanism will only be used with proper legal safeguards to catch "bad guys". Don't you want that? No, I don't. I really don't.

How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable.

You should give me spare keys to your car, in case you can't find your current pair. It's okay if you're uncomfortable with that, because I might have already made a copy without your knowledge, so you should give me a copy anyway.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#192

Post by ecnahc515 »

gascan wrote: post #130
beenBoutIT wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improving the 911 EMS system won't improve police response time in Oakland because Oakland, like most of the US, has an ongoing shortage of police officers. There isn't any easy way to make the job of a police officer more attractive.

The hatred directed at police officers certainly doesn't help. The recent fury directed at the handful of police officers who did not enter this or that school with an active shooter comes to mind. People have the expectation that police officers are required to die for us. Imagine being told by someone who already hates you, that you are supposed to die for them. It feels like we are awfully entitled when it comes t…

A lot of the anger directed at police in Oakland is well deserved due to the number of people they've needlessly killed without any real repercussions. There's other things coming to light showing even more corruption and that very little seems to be getting done about it.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#193

Post by sciurus »

lisper wrote: post #188
mikeash wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable.

> How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I can't. > I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable. I didn't say that it's completely unacceptable. What I said was that talking about expanding this kind of data sharing is if there were a consensus that only good…

> with my cell phone today is that the default assumption today is that my location is private, or at least under my control

Is that assumption accurate? Cell providers are already tracking your location and providing the data to resellers.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/05/tracking-firm-locationsm...

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#194

Post by craftyguy »

jonknee wrote: post #189
craftyguy wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people are calling law enforcement. Not always. Sometimes it's a medical emergency, or a fire. Law enforcement's access to precise location information should be limited to strictly only emergency scenarios that require their involvement. Any other use should be protected behind a warrant, but it's not clear that this is the case. This is a big shiny object for them that would 'help' in a wide variety of non-emerge…

> This is a big shiny object for them that would 'help' in a wide variety of non-emergency situations, so expect abuse. Did you miss the part where I linked to and quoted that this data is only sent from your phone to the database when you call 911 ? In non-emergency situations no one will be able to search this database for your location because your location is not in the database.

> when you call 911?

Right, and there's no possibility for this system being abused in non-emergency situations? Oh please.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#196

Post by pera »

lisper wrote: post #188
mikeash wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable.

> How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I can't. > I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable. I didn't say that it's completely unacceptable. What I said was that talking about expanding this kind of data sharing is if there were a consensus that only good…

I believe you are assuming that this feature would let the government request your geolocation on demand, but I don't think this is what they are actually suggesting: the idea is to make your phone automatically send your current coordinate after you make a call to 911.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#197

Post by lisper »

pera wrote: post #196
lisper wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I can't. > I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable. I didn't say that it's completely unacceptable. What I said was that talking about expanding this kind of data sharing is if there were a consensus that only good…

I believe you are assuming that this feature would let the government request your geolocation on demand, but I don't think this is what they are actually suggesting: the idea is to make your phone automatically send your current coordinate after you make a call to 911.

That's the feature described in the original article. But the comment I was responding to advocates expanding that capability without any specified limits (except, perhaps, that it be limited to "emergency" situations, but "emergency" is a very malleable word).

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#198

Post by lisper »

sciurus wrote: post #193
lisper wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you be sure your phone doesn’t have such a back door *now? I can't. > I don’t understand why you’d be ok with a cell phone as it stands today, but think that a cell phone which can send a bunch of data when you send 911 is completely unacceptable. I didn't say that it's completely unacceptable. What I said was that talking about expanding this kind of data sharing is if there were a consensus that only good…

> with my cell phone today is that the default assumption today is that my location is private, or at least under my control Is that assumption accurate? Cell providers are already tracking your location and providing the data to resellers. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/05/tracking-firm-locationsm...

> Is that assumption accurate?

Yes. That's why 1) the story you linked to describes how users are prompted for consent and 2) the leakage of this data is sufficiently scandalous to be newsworthy.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#199

Post by mcculley »

Today I had to call AAA to request a tow truck. I called from my cell phone and the automated system told me that it was determining my location from the cell towers and using that to route me to the best place. How does that work? I have worked with Twilio but I don't see any API for getting a caller's location. Is that something available with different providers?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#200

Post by AmericanChopper »

reaperducer wrote: post #132
VonGuard wrote: post #63

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

Sadly, this is not unique to Oakland. Several of the cities I've lived in have been plagued with 911 hold times of 10-20 minutes or more. In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded. In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect…

Well thank god it's so easy to get a concealed carry permit in California.
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