Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#191

Post by shados » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:10 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #123

StavrosK wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry. AirBnB is creating immense problems in tourist destinations, to the point where people in major cities in Greece (and other countries) are having trouble finding affordable permanent housing. Barcelona and Rome are overrun with tourists, and it's killing the cities. AirBnB should just go away, the market worked very well before it, even if things were a bit more expensive.

I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them. As a simple example: if we have too many tourists, give a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor that automatically includes museu…

Growing takes time. Things like a surge in tourism or commercial activities can happen nearly overnight.

In the city I live in (no NYC, but still one of the densest in the US and high demand), there's currently some big construction projects, and people are complaining its not big enough. Except its on a former landfill that could not support the larger structures. Let say we fix that...but the size of the project was also scaled according to capacity of the sewer infrastructure. Sure, we can fix that TOO, but then the people building the project have to wait a year, or two, or more, and they want money now.

You have to throttle things so that all the moving parts follow each other, to avoid making it hell for everyone.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#192

Post by danudey » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #72

pjc50 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increase property utilization This implies that rent should rise to meet nightly AirBnb rates, which has all sorts of implications ..

Yes, the most obvious of which is "build more [high-density] housing."

Build more high-density or mid-density rental housing.

In Vancouver, condo towers are coming up like weeds, but it's not reducing the cost of living for anyone. People who already have money buy those condos, they rent them out at high prices so they can pay their mortgage, people have to rent them because there's nowhere else because literally no one is building rental housing, and so rents go up.

Rents go up, so property values go up because there's so much money in them, so people build more condo towers, and the cycle repeats.

The problem is that we have hundreds or thousands of speculators who got in early and have the real-estate wealth to leverage to purchase more real estate, but they're in it to make a short-term profit. They don't have the capital to set prices for the long-term, so they have to rent things out at pretty high prices.

Meanwhile, if we had purpose-built rental, you'd be looking at one building, one landlord, one set of rents, and a business with a long-term view rather than real estate speculators who are just holding onto a condo as long as they can before they can cash it out and retire (or leverage it to buy more).

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#193

Post by bmelton » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

nacho2sweet wrote: post #180

Fede_V wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them. As a simple example: if we have too many tourists, give a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor that automatically includes museu…

Being a tourist and tourism is a luxury. Having affordable housing is a right.

Not that it's on-topic, but both are rights, and to be more specific, both are negatively asserted rights; which are (at least in America) rights to which nobody else has the obligation to assist you with, but to which nobody in the government may interfere.

Whether or not we regard one right as more important than the other (and to be fair, we absolutely should), that doesn't change that nobody else is obligated to assist you in pursuit of your rights.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#194

Post by shados » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #176

indigochill wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Reykjavik "too many tourists" is very much a problem. Or more specifically, the ratio of tourists to available housing. Sure, there are solutions. There's a huge housing bubble right now (which will collapse whenever tourism dries up), for instance. Maybe if it keeps on this way some legislation will be passed to get it under control. But both of those solutions are completely out of the hands of the people who ac…

It's a huge problem in Vancouver, as well. There's a huge housing crisis here, and there's a lot of factors involved, but real estate speculation and short-term rentals are substantial contributors. There was a woman at a city council meeting a few years ago who lived in a building with around 10 units, and she said six of them were on AirBnB. When ever she checked, their (small) pool always had people in it she'd ne…

> People buy places to live in and make a life in, and then half the building is party people

This has to be repeated. There's no point in living without some level of quality of life. Having everyone trying to raise their family, do their school work, study, or just try to sleep, in what are essentially all becoming hotels, is just not something we should strive for.

One could even argue you're going to end up in a world where success in life is tied to wealth, not because of all the reasons commonly associated with it, but just because one group can actually sleep at night and one can't.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#195

Post by chatmasta » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #123

StavrosK wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry. AirBnB is creating immense problems in tourist destinations, to the point where people in major cities in Greece (and other countries) are having trouble finding affordable permanent housing. Barcelona and Rome are overrun with tourists, and it's killing the cities. AirBnB should just go away, the market worked very well before it, even if things were a bit more expensive.

I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them. As a simple example: if we have too many tourists, give a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor that automatically includes museu…

People don’t have a problem with “too many tourists” as they do with too many tourists taking up residential space. Tourism is great for the economy, but only as long as it doesn’t create negative externalities on other parts of the economy.

It’s not so much the rise in tourism that’s the problem as it is the rise in tourists staying in residentially zoned areas. Hosts are renting apartments and then illegally subleasing them for profit, artificially inflating rental prices without a corresponding increase in income. This is an especially large problem in developing countries, where due to geographical arbitrage, tourists can afford to pay way more for an apartment than a resident can.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#196

Post by xapata » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #190

xapata wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? What is? Uber/Lyft seem like a great solution to me.

People without as much money as you would probably prefer more robust public transportation systems, which Uber/Lyft compete against.

Oh, sure, I'd prefer a better transit system, too. But in the meantime, I'd rather have more choice than less.

Uber costs less than a taxi, so this is giving poor(er) people more choice.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#197

Post by sreyaNotfilc » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #102

I think this is an interesting and unintended consequence of AirBnB not investing nearly on filtering their users. AirBnB obviously was interested in getting their product used by as many people as people (growth at all costs) - but this had the effect of getting a lot of young, cost conscious people to take holidays in area that were traditionally residential. While most AirBnB renters are polite and respectful, eno…

Well, you've already answered my question before I made a random response.

I was going to ask "Why are there laws against people making money?", but it make sense. Residential areas are for residents, not commerce. There should be a place for folks to relax around their contemporaries without having to deal with knowing that their environment may change from day to day.

I would say, perhaps there should be a compromise. After-all, being able to rent out a room from time to time can help home owners stay in their homes longer (or even enjoy life more). Maybe there could be a 2-3 strike rule on tenants. Where, if things do go out of hand (for whatever that reason), then the homeowner cannot be part of the AirBnb renting experience.

That way, there is something to gain and something to loose. Educating tenants would be priority.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#198

Post by xapata » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #188

xapata wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? What is? Uber/Lyft seem like a great solution to me.

Uber is a great concept, but the reality is that Uber has shown us time and time again why taxis cost what they do: regulation to protect users and our cities. Uber, like AirBnB and a lot of other startups, are 'disrupting' industries by entering them and taking them over by ignoring regulations, insurance, and even laws to keep costs low and make a profit. In this day and age, they can grow fast enough that by the t…

Uber provides commercial insurance, no? Other than that, I generally feel safer in an Uber ride than in a taxi.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#199

Post by xapata » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #165

xapata wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct way to handle those problems is to enforce noise and litter regulations. If your owner-neighbor is rowdy, it's no different than if their guests are rowdy.

Neighbor stays and is subject to enforcement, AirBnB guest leaves and isn’t.

The owner or tenant is subject to enforcement and pays the consequences of their guests actions.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#200

Post by xapata » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #178

Xylakant wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neighbor stays and is subject to enforcement, AirBnB guest leaves and isn’t.

AirBnB pays the fine, because they can afford to because they just made hundreds off the guests that littered and made a mess so they can chalk the fares up as the cost of doing business.

I'd bet the fines can be appropriately large and punitive if that's the case.