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Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

richmond.com

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Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#191

Post by lostlogin »

krisives wrote: post #186
barrkel wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/10/25/against-rat-park/ has links, e.g.: http://sci-hub.io/10.2466/pr0.1996.78.2.391 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2616610 But there are other studies linked that seem to confirm it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3696469 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18463628 Not sure where that leaves us.

Makes the guy who brought up sources look stupid

Not at all. Seeing what the OP has seen allows a better evaluation. I wish more online groups put more weight on sources.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#192

Post by OliverJones »

The "iron law of prohibition" teaches us this: prohibiting a substance drives out all but the most potent forms of that substance. Back during alcohol prohibition in the US, people made, smuggled, and sold "white lightning" not light beer.

In the case of opiods, the most potent forms are stuff like street fentanyl and oxy 80s pulverized. Milligram mistakes in dosages of this stuff are very dangerous.

The iron law leads to a paradox: decriminalizing a substance makes it safer. Obviously it's more complex than that: addicts need access to safe supplies of the substance. But it's still true.

But keeping opiods criminalized is, basically, makework for law enforcement and public safety people, not to mention people with names like El Chapo.

Switzerland and Portugal are having good success with decriminalization and treatment. Juristictions who don't need anything in the way of foreign aid or other cooperation from the USA are in the best position to do this.

Source: Chasing The Scream, a book by Johann Hari.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#193

Post by lostlogin »

gizmo686 wrote: post #160
miketery wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post scarcity? Where, when, and for who? Our current economic models don't work for that unfortunately. Edit: I should add there are a couple post scarcity instances in recent history. Establishment of America, and post WW2. These also coincided with the least income inequality. But those periods don't last.

In what ways were the Establishment of America, and post WW2 post scarcity? US inflation adjusted per capita GDP is higher today than at either of those times. While I do not think GDP is a great metric, I cannot think of any metric where we, as a society, have less "stuff" to go around then before.

It’s not the amount of stuff, it’s the inequality.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#194

Post by drpgq »

hycaria wrote: post #190
dep_b wrote: post #182

The greatest argument against the death penalty is that it's not applied to the people that deserve it the most. Not only did the pharmaceutical industry earn billions by pushing addictive opioids to people but they also charge people up the nose for the injections they need after they OD'ed because they got addicted. People are still getting filthy rich literally over other people's deaths. In the name of health. I…

You know this problem is not really prevalent in places with legit healthcare systems, Europe amongst all ? And that we don't pop opiods to all suffering patients, ie we can allow things to hurt a bit sometimes it's not that big a deal, and it's surely better than getting hooked to stuff. Why blame the pharmaceutical industry. Your practitionners and your patients have a problem.

There's plenty of opiate addicts in Canada. Although some would argue about whether our healthcare system is legit.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#195

Post by jrowley »

oliwarner wrote: post #174
jrowley wrote: post #9

Just the other morning I got off of bart in downtown Oakland, 12th street and there was a guy just laid out, unresponsive right on the steps outside the station. He had smoked something out of a can. I stuck with the guy while the paramedics came, but the most tragic part was that he had a plastic "No Allergies" bracelet on. When the paramedics took off his shirt he still had adhesive on his skin from the EKG straps…

Opiate ODs are given naloxone in hospital. It's really effective but they feel like shit. If it's still in their system when they leave, and they try to use, they're more likely to double-dose to get the feeling back. The problem with opiates (esp in the US) is they ones that are available are too strong and completely unforgiving. Fentanyl is an elephant gun but it's supplanting heroin on streets due to its prevalen…

You can actually purchase the naloxone spray and carry it as a regular person. I've been thinking about getting some but I've heard gnarly stories about people reacting pretty intensely/dangerously after receiving the drug (eg attacking the person administering the drug)

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#196

Post by lostlogin »

iambateman wrote: post #133
drug_uesr_throw wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1: I had a severe burn on my crotch (FML) and was prescribed. Funny thing is I KNEW I would become dependent. I'm an addict. sober from cocaine and alcohol (was sober from coke for a couple years before pills, ironically opiates helped me quit drinking which was a big struggle for half of my 20s). No hyperbole, every relative on my fathers side of the family is an addict, going back generations. My dad is an alcoholi…

Really appreciate you taking the time to write this. I agree that blame misses the point and also that doctors need to bear some weight of responsibility when dishing out opioids. Hope the best for you...

I’d go further - what the hell was the OP’s doctor doing?

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#197

Post by oliwarner »

jrowley wrote: post #195
oliwarner wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opiate ODs are given naloxone in hospital. It's really effective but they feel like shit. If it's still in their system when they leave, and they try to use, they're more likely to double-dose to get the feeling back. The problem with opiates (esp in the US) is they ones that are available are too strong and completely unforgiving. Fentanyl is an elephant gun but it's supplanting heroin on streets due to its prevalen…

You can actually purchase the naloxone spray and carry it as a regular person. I've been thinking about getting some but I've heard gnarly stories about people reacting pretty intensely/dangerously after receiving the drug (eg attacking the person administering the drug)

Yeah the nasal spray should work within a couple of minutes. But even IM (5 minutes) is going to be pretty brutal.

You imagine going from a numb high... to feeling everything you were blocking out with opiates. Many of these people have legitimate pain. You'd probably not be too happy.

I'd certainly be wary about administering it to a stranger, without their consent and without knowing what their reaction would likely be. It's legally sketchy, especially if the drug is —as it is— not generally available (it's prescription-only in many places). Still, don't let me put you off saving somebody's life from an accidental overdose.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#198

Post by oliwarner »

krisives wrote: post #185
oliwarner wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opiate ODs are given naloxone in hospital. It's really effective but they feel like shit. If it's still in their system when they leave, and they try to use, they're more likely to double-dose to get the feeling back. The problem with opiates (esp in the US) is they ones that are available are too strong and completely unforgiving. Fentanyl is an elephant gun but it's supplanting heroin on streets due to its prevalen…

That sounds like a really complicated issue without a clear solution and no benefit to whoever solves it. By comparison I think it would be easier to make a self driving car or automated robot that does most of what a heroin addict does. Sounds terrible don’t care I’m out of sympathy for addicts in society.

I think what is becoming clear now is that not all opiate addicts are recreational users. Many are victims of inappropriate prescriptions and lack of follow-up and supervision.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#199

Post by jrowley »

krisives wrote: post #185
oliwarner wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opiate ODs are given naloxone in hospital. It's really effective but they feel like shit. If it's still in their system when they leave, and they try to use, they're more likely to double-dose to get the feeling back. The problem with opiates (esp in the US) is they ones that are available are too strong and completely unforgiving. Fentanyl is an elephant gun but it's supplanting heroin on streets due to its prevalen…

That sounds like a really complicated issue without a clear solution and no benefit to whoever solves it. By comparison I think it would be easier to make a self driving car or automated robot that does most of what a heroin addict does. Sounds terrible don’t care I’m out of sympathy for addicts in society.

Like I said in my post, it's only a matter of time until you encounter it first hand, especially if you take a short stroll through select neighborhoods in most large cities. Its obvious you've thought about the issue but I urge you to engage with it by witnessing it first hand. Addicts are people too - they deserve compassion from society just as much as you or I do.

Re: Nineteen people a week overdose in Richmond, dozens are dying, hundreds revived

#200

Post by krisives »

jrowley wrote: post #199
krisives wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a really complicated issue without a clear solution and no benefit to whoever solves it. By comparison I think it would be easier to make a self driving car or automated robot that does most of what a heroin addict does. Sounds terrible don’t care I’m out of sympathy for addicts in society.

Like I said in my post, it's only a matter of time until you encounter it first hand, especially if you take a short stroll through select neighborhoods in most large cities. Its obvious you've thought about the issue but I urge you to engage with it by witnessing it first hand. Addicts are people too - they deserve compassion from society just as much as you or I do.

My sister is a heroin addict I've encountered enough =)

Also I have lived in Salem, Oregon look up it's statistics.

Just because my heart doesn't bleed for people who wouldn't do shit to help you doesn't mean I don't understand the problem.

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